Do we really think the shitty Dems like Jeffries and Schumer are actually gonna convict these people? They’re already walking back actually going after anyone. It’ll all be weasel words and “reconciliation.”
Didn’t this guy and the pedo in chief gut all the intelligent military people so the military would be more loyal? Kind of like Russia has done while under Putin?
Like impeachment does anything. Look at trump go for exemple.
It can for people lower than a president. I think pursuing an impeachment for Trump is pointless, but the rest of his war criminal regime should be rounded up.
Treat it like a RICO case
There is a very high chance he gets removed. Losing a rushed war with bad advice given to Trump is bad enough. There is no actual escalation of war options, because the funding requests to replenish existing depletions/losses can’t get justified to congress, and lying that escalation is affordable is not possible when the defeat so far is already unaffordable.
There is a funding request that passed the house, and is stalled in Senate, that would give Hegseth “national security” magic word authority to spend unlimited amounts. That is an even higher priority to defeat.
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“likely”
I do not think that word means what you think it means…
Dems likely to get 56 senate seats. need 67 votes to impeach any rat fucker. Needs too many Rs to play “Susan Collins deliberating” role for attention that just drags out.
Well technically impeachment is just half the house, is just that impeachment doea not mean anything on its own.
Had a conversation today speculating that there is a non zero chance Republicans could decide to go with some convictions. Throwing a few of this administration under the bus might be seen as more strategically valuable to salvage the wreckage of their reputation. Patel, Hegseth, Miller, RFK Jr all seem to be ripe for some populist scapegoating. Hell maybe even the big man himself, though they might be betting on a cardiac event or similar to do it for them.
God, get rid of Miller. He’s the center of this shitstorm.
Hegseth is in trouble. More than any other on your list. He can’t even show his face for budget requests to congress.
If I hear one fucking word about putting the past behind me and moving on together as a country, I am starting a fucking riot and burning the DNC office to the ground.
And you would only do that after you have successfully burned the RNC office to the ground.
I’m sure Schumer and Jeffries are writing that speech right now.
Hakeem’s already doing the rounds. Get this fucker OUT.
Jeffries and Schumer just love to roll over and show their bellies. It’s like they both have a submissive kink. Neither should be put in charge of leading Congress.
Hell neither should be trusted with greeting at walmart.
AIPAC money will do that.
How long till war crimes?
2023 around early October.
we can’t use Guillotine-kun, then he’ll just get isekai’d…
He needs to be turned over to the Hague as well. The only people who want to keep the U.S. out of the ICC are conservatives. The opinions of conservatives are valueless.
We need to turn these international criminals over to the international authorities.
Send this goddamned traitor to the Hague, in the same shackled, blindfolded and gagged getup as all the Guantanamo Bay prisoners he oversaw.
That will never happen. The US policy is that if any US citizen is forcibly brought before the Hague the US would raid the Hague and reclaim their citizen. The only judicial system the us recognizes is it’s own.
Either we change the policy, or we exterminate the nazis who insist upon it. We need action, not a defeatist attitude toward our own corruption. If it takes violence to fix the conservatism, then violence it is.
One is unlikely, the other more likely but less plausible if that makes sense.
I agree. And neither option is “impossible”. We can make these changes, with enough progressive push. It won’t be easy or quick, but it is possible. I think it’s also necessary.
I didn’t say impossible, it’s very possible. That said it will never happen.
Then change the goddamned policy.
Won’t happen. Politicians don’t want their feet to the flame so it’ll stay.
Won’t happen
You’d have said the same thing yesterday about a trans woman being elected to the Alabama state house.
A year ago you’d have said the same thing about a Democrat winning a Texas Senate seat and a progressive Muslim who’s unapologetically pro trans and M4A winning one in Michigan.
Two or three years ago, you’d have laughed in the face of anyone claiming that a huge majority would be against continuing to fund the West’s favorite fascist apartheid state, let alone a Democratic Socialist anti-zionist Muslim progressive being the Mayor of New York, the most zionist city outside of said apartheid ethnostate.
Guess what: sometimes,when your attitude ISN’T automatic defeatism, things CAN change for the better.
I agree with @Madison420@lemmy.world the likelihood of this policy changing anytime soon is nil.
I mean, it would be nice to change it, but count on it.No I wouldn’t. Don’t put words in my mouth especially if they’re wrong. Aside from that it’s a wildly different situation as no one risks prison time.
No again, I would not have.
Wrong yet again but fuck it you must know me better than me huh?
Sometimes your attitude is based solely on assuming someone’s position and then acting catty based on that flawed series of assumptions.
Not with that attitude it won’t.
Fatalism is nice and all, and I fall into myself a good deal …
… but if ever there was a moment to believe that it at least might be possible to wrest control of the ship of state from these goddamned corrupt pedophile war mongers, it’d be now.
You can probably get control but you are unlikely to find a politician to actively vote for something that directly sets them up for criminal charges.
How many voted-in politicians regularly commit war crimes?
Not many, but they have been known to tell other people to, on their behalf.
Partially agree to it, the ICC, not full ICJ jurisdiction for every member of the US government.
Everybody in DoD is subject to it, and then define a mechanism where if a DoD official is asked or ordered to do something that could make them liable to be sent to the Hague, theres a mechanism for instantaneous security declassification and emergency presentation to Congress, that also permits the order to be stayed untill voted on by both chambers as a legitimate or illegitimate order, also simultaneously voting on impeaching and removing the offending politician(s).
Thus, it ain’t a politician directly voting to potentially fuck themselves, and it isn’t a total … relinquishing of US sovereign authority.
Something like that.
Some kind of mechanism like this would also augment what the War Powers Act tries to do but does not actually do well at all. Starting a war of aggression is a war crime.
In the US most arguably. There is collective guilt to be had by the boatload around here.
The US is not under the jurisdiction of the ICC. A court can’t rule outside of its jurisdiction so that would be the Hague acting illegally. The US like most other large countries are not signatory to the Rome Statute
Iirc we signed but didn’t ratify like a lot of things. That said the icc doesn’t care, if you’re brought before them they will try you if need be.
A court can’t just operate where it has no jurisdiction and the US, much like Russia and China are not in their Jurisdiction. Who in the ICC will hold a nuclear armed country accountable? Latin America and Europe? Same reason Putin will never go to the ICC.
It can, the results do not need to matter in the country the person is from because they aren’t in that country.
Yeah, no duh. We already went over this and I’m not sure why you’re not aware of that fact or seem to think you’re making a point.
Because you are simply wrong. You keep insisting a court can operate where it has no jurisdiction and they “don’t care” both things are 100% completely wrong and false. This isn’t secret knowledge this is why I am telling you, but you keep insisting provably false information.
They aren’t operating in America so they don’t need jurisdiction in America! The same way a court in New Zealand doesn’t need jurisdiction in Zimbabwe to try someone in hold your horses here… Fucking New Zealand! The Hague operates in the Netherlands and have jurisdiction in multiple signatory countries and again brace yourself… the fucking Netherlands you absolute brick skull.
So if you’re familiar with the Overton Window, can you guess which way comments like this move it?*
I’m not saying you mean ill. I’ve got a little bit of doomer in me too. Been there. But if you lose your capacity for hope and outrage you become an instrument of those that want to keep things shitty for us.
*Only microscopically, but still. The hopelessness and helplessness add up.
Comments like mine don’t move it at all boss.
It’s not doomer, its accepting reality. No one said don’t try, I said don’t hold your breath.
There’s no hopelessness, no helplessness. We don’t need the icc to reign in our own country, that’s on us to do and dreaming of a solution that’s not likely isn’t helping anything either.
Best we can do is a pardon
Presidential pardons have no authority over the ICC
The US isn’t a signatory to the Rome Statute so they are not under the jurisdiction of the ICC. Neither is China, Russia, India, Israel, Iran, or Pakistan
Any standard below imprisonment is unacceptable
The guy is responsible for bombing a school and killing 150 young girls. We execute people for less in the US.
I think it’s the boats that will get him. I think they ended up killing several hundred at random. Iran was a war-not-a-war so that may give him some cover as a failure.
The boats are hardly any less horrific, and I have no doubt there were children on more than 1.
I’m not so sure… is the American public even aware of the boat strikes?
2/3rds of the senate is a big hill to climb, especially when many of the R’s that survived are from far right states.
not if the victims are brown…
He looks like a kid who’s been told “no” for the first time in their lives. I am appalled and disguested that he was toured around like he was some massive hero when this was the ‘manly’ reaction he gave for his ‘heroic’ actions
he gives piggy boy fascist
There wasn’t a single brown victim. Get your disinformation performative bullshit out of here.
Still hope this shitheels catches a bullet.
Also he denied vets treatment or help since the Iran war is not a war.
I’ll pass on capital punishment.
He should be “executed” on live TV, but the guns just “shoot” out a flag that’s says “prison for life”.
He needs to think he’s actually being executed though: he’s fine with it.
I get where you’re coming from, but war crimes aren’t cool.
Yeah, this is one of those times where the punishment is more to tell others “this is what happens when you do this BS. So don’t do this.”
Like I said, I get it. If you want to say he should be executed or sent to prison for life, I won’t argue with you. But the Geneva conventions don’t have a “we need to send a message” clause.
It would definitely scar him a lot. I’ve had a gun held to my head before and it really fucks you up for sure.
I hope you’ve been (and are) able to deal with that trauma in a healthy way.
Come to think of it, I’m not sure I wish that on anyone, no matter who they are.
He’s possibly barely suffered a consequence in his entire life, so probably even the thought of there being any consequences is terrifying (enough) to him.
Normally I’d agree. But conservative traitors who commit atrocities in public view while celebrating and bragging are my exception.
These cockroaches need to suffer the same torture they have inflicted upon their victims. If they survive CECOT for a year, then we put them in a fishing boat and take bets on how far they get before exploding.
It’s definitely conflicting. He’s committed so many atrocities and it really makes emotions flare up. I understand where you are coming from but I just don’t want to see humanity further fleeting into barbarism by doing eye for an eye. Plus, death frees him from the shame of having to live with who he is and what he’s done.
I want vengeance, but if the system actually moves forward with actual justice and real convictions and prison time, I’ll be more than satisfied.
You are a kind soul. I like where you’re coming from. Conservatives are biologically unable to experience shame, though, so you’ll need to come up with a more creative punishment.
He didn’t…
That’s on him, not me
100% a distinction that seems lost on a lot of people.
Yeah I honestly don’t think I’d be able to see that if I weren’t pacifist. I do understand their anger but I do wish people could differentiate between what’s based off their anger and what should actually be done once the anger is filtered out and processed by our analytical side.
There’s also that a lot of people conflate justice with revenge.
Distance oneself from wanting vengeance and then discussed what consequences justice requires.
But only if they’re poor.
Televised execution?
Jk, I never want that.
Televised execution?
We kinda got that last night at the polls.
BUUURRRN!
Firing squad against a dude in a wheel chair
Maybe if Hegseth holds the chair. Tell him it’s the manly thing to do. And instruct the squad to aim for the convictim’s head. If he’s going to make soldiers commit cold-blooded murder he might as well have the best view.
Public execution of politicians and government officials… I’m kinda leaning toward maybe
Gonna be a hot take, bit I’m all for it. Some people deserve that kind of humiliation.
I’d counter that almost no one deserves the trauma of watching someone being killed.
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.
Honestly, I disagree. A stance I hold is that voters should have to see the horrors of war. You shouldn’t be allowed to elect someone who may send people off to die brutally without knowing what that looks like. By this, I don’t mean watching Band of Brothers or something. I mean actual footage of people being injured or dying in modern combat. You’re choosing that for other people, so you should have to know what it actually is.
9 year old me (casually scrolling on 4chan) would agree. I still remember accidentally stumbling across my first beheading video. The early (largely unmoderated) internet was like the Wild West.
I seriously question the idea that death is inherently traumatic. History is littered with public-executions, ceremonial killings and death for entertainment. People are eager to pay for and play GTA 6: a murder- and crime-simulator. People love violence. People are unfazed by death when the victims belong to an out-group–those that are deemed not to be people.
“Oh that’s just an actor. The character died, not the actor.”
“They’re not real; it’s a video-game.”
“They’re jews.”
“He was a pedophile.”
“She’s a nazi.”
“He’s a murderer; it’s comeuppance.”
Desensitization is a type of trauma. Many people are, in fact, traumatized by seeing death.
I have seen people die and I have seen dead bodies and it’s a weight on me for over twenty years. It compounds instead of getting better.
I’ve seen people have nightmares after scrolling through Facebook and seeing Charlie Kirk die. People that were somewhat okay with him being dead but still traumatized by seeing it.
No one should see it without consent. I mean really informed consent not just “sure, I’ll watch this.” They have to know all the risks. Even then, I’d still prefer they didn’t.
I don’t like your argument about earlier public executions. I’m pretty sure none of them were okay.
What if it could be death by tickling?
Death by snu snu?
Still against the state choosing who lives and dies. Definitely don’t think people should be watching.
You are obsolete!
(Agreeing with you and reference to the Twilight Zone The Obsolete Man https://youtu.be/No04AeiTKAw)
Being executed isn’t humiliating. You wanna humiliate them put them in a public pillory and sell tomatoes and live stream it 24x7.
Gonna have to disagree with that one. I’d imagine a public execution where you have people shouting for your death, as your crimes are read out loud for everyone to hear, would, not only, be humiliating, but put the real fear of God in you as you finally realize your actions have caught up with you.
Proceeds from the tomato sales go towards funding his continued imprisonment
We could cancel all taxes and balance the national budget if they set this up for Trump.
There’d be a nationwide tomato shortage
🤣 There already is, thanks to conservatives!
I personally disagree with normalization of such violence. It makes people tolerate it to the point they don’t even register it as wrong. Hence why repubs wanted to publicly execute people.
I think it was an attempt to normalise the killing of political opponents. Such violence is already normal and legitimised in America, the land of school-shootings and capital punishment.
Such murder needs to remain behind closed doors as to be polite in American society. Please enjoy the following entertainment-products:
Yeah I’m with you on that. I don’t like the idea of the public becoming desensitized to shit like that.
It’s fine to disagree with it. But, that won’t change my mind that there are some people who, I believe, deserve it.
I agree. But, slight adjustment. Conservatives are not “people”.
Can we send him to Iran as a peace offering?
I would see him being handed over to the parents in Iran as fair. Then whatever happens to him is their rightful choice and it’s not the state making the decision
Live execution? It was his idea
I’m very much against the death penalty but his public execution is one I’d actually watch.
Most of the cabinet is looking at jail time I think
Trump would just pardon them. You’ll have to wait until Ds win in Presidential election.
The only limit the US Constitution puts on the President’s pardon power is that it cannot be used in cases of impeachment.
And as we know, the US Constitution sure has stopped them doing whatever they want.
Can jail time come from an impeachment? Or is it only removal from office if convicted?
It’s only removal from office, and optionally also disqualification from holding any future Federal office.
But, even though impeachment is meant to look like a trial, it is not a trial. And if someone is determined to have committed a crime as part of the impeachment proceedings, they can still be prosecuted. That person might be able to complain that they can’t possibly get a fair trial after a public impeachment, but that’s a separate matter.
Honestly the Democrats need go start looking into pathways to delegitimizing Trump’s or ideally all presidental pardons.
I can see where a pardon power given to a president is beneficial to society but such a power without any checks is clearly inappropriate when a corrupt president wields it. It’s as if the founding fathers had a much more positive outlook on the future of the US than it has evidence to believe.
Yeah, it desperately needs a check. Like, even if that check is “the president has to give a reason and Congress has to approve it.” We can even allow extremely flimsy reasons since it’s not like, a trial. But just enough that the reason has to be something not “This guy helped me do crimes.” Or “Own the libs.”
How about Trump’s favorite reason “he gave me 2 million dollars in exchange for a pardon”?
You cant pardon an impeachment, so theres still something.
This administration has already guaranteed its spot in history but a little more corruption will just add to that
