To add insult to injury, what they call it, Deutschland, sounds like what we should call Netherlands
Deutschland, sounds like what we should call Netherlands
Until you then find out that the Netherlands is actually called “Nederland” in the Netherlands. And the reason they’d called “Dutch” in America is due to an archaic mix-up between the two nationalities.
It’s not really a mix-up. More a continuation of an old name for the language spoken in the Netherlands. The Dutch centuries ago called their language Diets/Duuts/Duits which means something like Germanic. This was before the countries Germany and the Netherlands existed.
Diets is not a single language but a name for all the different regional languages spoken in the low lands. Diets is also known as Middle Dutch. The name was used to differentiate the languages from the Romance languages.
Hence why the English called the people of the low lands Dutch since the people of the low lands said they were speakers of Diets/Duuts/Duits.
Also in the Dutch national anthem there is a line that says “Ben ik van Duitsen bloed” “I am of Dutch/Deutsche blood” which does not refer to modern day Deutschland but to what all Germanic people in the low lands, what is now present day Netherlands, would call themselves back then.
The Dutch centuries ago called their language Diets/Duuts/Duits which means something like Germanic.
No, it means something like “people” or “of the people”.
Wait, so Dutch is the language of people and everyone else has been using animal languages this whole time!?
Ja
What do people from the Netherlands call themselves if not Dutch or the Dutch?
Like, people from the United States call themselves Americans, there’s the Spanish and French.
Are they called Netherlanders or something?
Well in Dutch they call themselves Nederlanders or Hollanders. Though Hollanders is technically only correct if they are from the Dutch province North-Holland or South-Holland
here is a CGP Grey video about the difference between Holland and the Netherlands https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc
And the reason why the Netherlands is also known as Holland is basically before the unification of the Low Lands every province was a self governing state and Holland was the richest province. Hence why most traders who went abroad from the Low Lands were people from Holland. It’s therefore why people abroad would call the Low Lands Holland since Hollanders were the only people from the Low Lands they met and and after the Netherlands was formed the name Holland for that area stuck in many languages.
Holland is fairytale beautiful. Would happily live there. I loved visiting.
Most Dutch people I met just call it Holland. We do so in Denmark as well
“We” call it Holland because foreigners say “eh?” when we call it the Netherlands.
Its the worst. Always try a “Netherlands” and get a “what??” in return and then say “Holland” - “ooooooh HOLLAND!”…
Hah, didn’t know that
Yeah wierd situation. Internally it only refers to the 2 provinces in the west but externally we all chant it during football matches
This is what confused me so much about germany’s real name :)
and Japan is is not Japan in Japan.
NaNi-ppon?
In the Netherlands, we don’t call out country The Netherlands.
We call it: “Nederland”. Completely different.
But the Americans seem to think you are Duits.
Same with Denmark = Danmark
I know. It’s a shocking difference. We call you guys Holland for some reason, though and every non-european I’ve ever met keeps thinking we are the same country. I was asked to say something in Dutch once and just looked blankly at the person.
In Spanish Germany is Alemania. Just to add more confusion to this topic.
Allemagne in french.
And in Italian we call the country Germania but the inhabitants are called “tedeschi”
Danish is closer, we call it Tyskland
Tedesco
*Alemania, no accent
Thanks, fixed
To be fair, Alemania (Ale Mania!) sounds like a kick ass name for Bavaria.
Wait’ll you hear about Japan.
The wiki on Names of Japan is a rollercoaster.
Same goes for Korea (since it was defined by the reigning Kingdom)
Or China!
Technically, Japan is not called Japan in Japan. Its Nippon.
In France it’s called Japon.
France also uses the world “nippon” as an adjective equivalent of “japanese”
Same both Japón & Nipón for Spanish language but with its phonetics
Same in Italian. Giappone and nipponico.
I love this exchange.
It is interesting, because Nippon is a somewhat archaic version in Japanese. They usually say Nihon now.
But of course, these exonyms will have been borrowed into these various languages a long time ago, so it kind of makes sense.
Maybe it’s just regional for me, but we say Japonais
In Germany Nippon is a brand of puffed rice with chocolate.
That’s it, I’m going back to bed
More often Nihon than Nippon. The latter is somewhat archaic.
Both are spelled almost the same in Japanese (kana): にほん vs. にぽん.
日本 could be either, but most often Nihon.
Not technically, it just plain isn’t called Japan.
Americans are slowly learning about the rest of the world.
Better late than never.
America was originally just the name of South America, then the English lazily coined the term “North America”.
Entire nations: You cannot keep “America” for yourself. There is history, maps, books, the independence of other countries in the region called for the liberation of “America” (e.g. Simón Bolívar “the liberator of America”; “America for the Americans”; Sentimientos de la Nación: “America is free and independent of Spain and all other nations, governments, or monarchies”).
The U.S. of A.: Yeah… No. I’m America now. There’s no other “America” because there’s only North America and South America, 🤷🏼♂️ don’t you know? And the land is The Americas because it’s two in one. Duh. Erasure? I call it freedom! 🇺🇸🦅
Mostly found out as we feverishly seek out escape routes.
The amazing thing is, people don’t refer to their home country by a two letter acronym.
UK has entered the chat
In Denmark we refer to the UK as England. If it’s more official we call them Storbritannien but no one calls them that in everyday speech. It’s just England.
I know it’s not the point.
But spitting on Scotland and Northern Ireland like that is a bit harsh.
(Sees car with CH sticker drive by…)
Wait until you find out that Kanada isn’t called Kanada in Kanada.
There isn’t called there when you are there. It’s called here there.
Same same but different
Take it up with your ancestors (or the English, if you have no English ancestors yourself). They started calling the Dutch “Dutch” when people in what is today The Netherlands and Germany were both called deutsch/dutch, and the English didn’t care to adjust when the distinction started to matter/people from the Netherlands stopped calling themselves deutsch/dutch.
But Germans are not much better, it’s absurd that Italian city names that aren’t at all hard to pronounce for Germans have different names in German, e.g. Torino, Milano, Roma (Turin, Mailand, Rom), and we also call Japan “Japan”, even though Japanese is one of the few languages that uses a word for Germany that is derived from “Deutschland” and “Nippon” isn’t hard to pronounce for Germans, either.
Also, the saxons never lived in the area of the German federal state of Saxony.
Also, the saxons never lived in the area of the German federal state of Saxony.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Guess what? The modern state of Saxony (aka Upper Saxony, Obersachsen) is not even contiguous with the state of Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen). They’re separated by nearly 300 km.
Although to be somewhat fair they are connected by Sachsen-Anhalt. And basically all of northern Germany was at one point called Saxony (“Old Saxony”, Altesachsen), at least by some others in the first millennium.
Of course history is funny; The lands of Upper Saxony weren’t part of the medieval Duchy of Saxony that followed, despite eventually taking the name (via “Electorate of Saxony” and then “Kingdom of Saxony”).
But anyway the “Anglo-Saxons” were probably really from Denmark and northern Schleswig-Holstein. The southern parts of their region might’ve been called Saxony at the time.
(I’m mostly posting this because I wanted to figure it all out)
But Germans are not much better, it’s absurd that Italian city names that aren’t at all hard to pronounce for Germans have different names in German, e.g. Torino, Milano, Roma (Turin, Mailand, Rom), …
Nobody is better. All languages do this to an extent. The Germanized city names especially in Northern Italy also stem from the fact that they used to be under Austrian control and they claim to speak German too.
All languages do this to an extent.
Exactly. In Spanish, we have some ‘curious’ names for Germany and its states and cities. «Alemania» is the name of the country. «Renania-Palatinado» is Rheinland-Pfalz, Bayern got turned into «Baviera». «Colonia» is Köln, «Friburgo de Brisgovia» is Freiburg im Brisgau…
Austrians are just as able as BRD Germans to pronounce something like Milano, though.
You are assuming that the name as it is in Italian today has always been the same and it isn’t. Both Milano and Mailand are linguistic descendants of the name whichever people who first set up shop there spoke and decided to call the place. And that wasn’t anywhere close to modern Italian. They are both valid.
English ditches the o and has Florence on the books as well. Geographical names follow no logical rule. Most are just historical accidents, some historical crimes. This is more in the former category if you ask me.
Cologne, Munich, Brussels, Naples, The Hague … It’s everywhere.
I say we should go the Belarus route.
I look forward to renaming virtually everything in the Americas.
It wouldn’t really make sense to use different names than the current locals, though.
Who decided that it wouldn’t make sense?
You’re entitled to your incredibly ridiculous opinion.
Plus the true downgrade of Firenze to “Florence.”
Naples? Rome? Venice?
Those have more straightforward transliterations. But where the fuck does the L even come from?
Firenze was also the art and culture capitol of Europe for quite some time, so this isn’t some backwater town. It’s like the CCP telling people that New York is now officially called “Not Yoodle” in Chinese.
Florence comes from the Latin name of the city Florentia.
TIL
Czech: Neapol, Řím, Benátky.
Napoli. Roma. Venezia.
Do you perhaps mean “Florenz”?
No, in Italian, the city’s name is Firenze, which is much cooler IMO than nasal EN/DE Florence. Which, TIL, is from the Latin Florenti, as in “Florentine” as the ajdectival form.
What’s “Florenz”?
What’s “Florenz”?
It’s Firenze in German.
Florenz, but yeah
IIRC Germany is named weirdly different around the world with names stemming from several roots.
Deutschland, Germany, Alemania, Nemezky, Saksa,…
Well Germans kind of were the Holy Roman Empire so in my books they can call those cities in italy what ever they fancy.
Having to learn new names for countries and cities is one of the worst parts of learning a second language.
lol it’s not by far
I speak two languages so yes, i’d say it really is. Some spanish place names are completely different than english ones and trying to dredge them up in conversation can be tedious if you don’t often use them.
But keep downvoting people you mildly disagree with. It really improves the platform and discussions. /s
Cool beans, I speak three languages and there’s no way you believe that some arbitrary vocabulary is harder than grammatical finesses, or some outrageous slang, or idioms/shibboleths.
Maybe you aren’t “speaking” that second language as well as you think?
Also, imagine caring about votes 😂 it’s not a disagree button, Brudi. But your high effort post probably deserves all the updoots.
“/s” 🤣 holy Moses, Reddit is leaking hard.
I’m glad accounts like yours out themselves so early after joining. Makes you easier to block.
Keep questioning peoples lived experiences. I’m sure you’ll make lots of friends that way. /s
I won’t be responding as i’ve blocked you.
Those are good points but Torino as Turin is complicated, some folks there still call it that in dialect etc. and historically, run by the Lombards and all that.
English is terrible at this, Venice is Venezia, if you can say pizza you can say that.
“Venedig” in German, even though they literally use (almost) the same sound for z as Italian …
“Nippon” isn’t hard to pronounce for Germans, either.
I don’t know about that. Even if Germans are not shy of pronouncing letters wrongly (using V as F for instance), the P in Nippon makes no sense in German. It would have to be spelled with an H to make the right sound.
OK. German has an H (same as English, which makes it weird that it’s written with a P in the first place) and isn’t shy about spelling reforms, either.
I have another mindblowing fact for you: in Germany, the v is an f and the w is a v.
The v is an f in the beginning of the word and a v in the middle of a word.
I love how we all just keep adding to the clusterfuck that is the German language. ❤️
And s is z, z is c
Too far.
Oh yeah? This symbol = ß that looks deceptively like a mangled B is the double S in German.
Don’t get me started on their states. My favourite is Mecklenburg-Vorpommern because it sounds like a curse word you’d yell out in pain after stepping on a Lego.
Also umlauts.
Which might seem confusing but I wish English used accents/umlauts to show pronounciation because that would do a lot to unfuck the spelling of this powerful but bastard of a language.
Oh for sure. I do have to admit, though, that I very much enjoy when Americans use umlauts in inappropriate ways. And as a Dane I have feel special joy when they replace their o’s with ø in an attempt to make words look hardcore, cool and Nordic.
That, my friend, is endlessly entertaining to me and will never not be funny.
I remember that one album by Twenty One Pilots where literally every o was replaced with and ø on the cover and I was friggin crying and hyperventilating the first time I saw it. I haven’t listened to any of the songs. They may go really hard and be masterpieces, but to me I can never take that album seriously. They really thought that ø is just a cooler looking o and not its own letter with a very distinct sound that, in the context of English would make every word sound like it’s being spoken by Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Too var.
What’s Germany? You mean Německo?
No, he meant Allemagne
Clearly he meant Tyskland!
You mean Niemcy?
Wait till you find out that Germans have different words for all the other things we have words for, too!
Seriously though, the names of countries are just words. There’s no reason to expect them to be the same in different languages.
It gets interesting when you hear how the Chinese call countries.
Oh, it’s all interesting IMO!
I think it’s so funny that almost all languages have some variation of the name “Hungary”, except in Hungarian, where it’s called “Magyarország”.
I believe the languages of some neighbouring countries such as Turkey resemble Magyarország more closely :)
I’ve always wanted to make a map that used the native names for countries instead of their English/American names.
Most of them are fairly expected. That Finland tho…
Etkos puhu suomeä? :)
valitettavasti en :(
I do watch a lot of Hydraulic Press Channel though so i at least have an ear for Finglish :)
Looks like they specifically chose the official English names for countries even when the indigenous name is also official.
They explain the methodology - where there is more than one official name, the name in the language with the most speakers in that country is used.
That’s certainly a decision.
How would you pick along multiple official names in different languages?
I mean it’s mostly a criticism of whoever suggested this map as a way to see country names in the language of the country, rather than just English.
But it’s also kind of a pointless map as it’s not useful to an English speaker but it doesn’t commit to teaching you indigenous place names either.
Actually I’d argue country names are one of the examples where it would make more sense to have the same name everywhere. Why not use the countries actual name (maybe with slight adaption to the language)?
The United States of America is just a series of English words. It really wouldn’t make sense in some other languages.
In Spanish it’s Estados Unidos which seems like a translation of the words.
In Spanish it’s Estados Unidos
USA is EU??? 🤯
Because of an old rule (plurals get double letter), I believe the recommended way by the Academy is «E.E. U.U.». Not sure if they’ve said otherwise recently.
It’s also not uncommon to see «E.U.A.», «E.U.» or those same but without the dots.
No confusion with the European Union, though, because that’s «Unión Europa»: «U.E.».
Finally we can get into Eurovision!
Do country names, or names in general, need to make “sense”?
As for the USA, without any evidence or desire to look it up, I think most languages translate it pretty much literally.
Why not use the German name for “chair”? Words are arbitrary. Why would you use the local inhabitants’ name for it?
What about when a country has more than one ethnic group with more than one language, which have different names for the country? This is the case in many places. You could pick one, of course, but that’s just another arbitrary choice.
The historical reason is that names for countries (which often develop from names for peoples) don’t always come from the a common source.
The word for chair is arbitrary. The chair has no feeling towards one word or another. Most countries’ people do have feelings towards their country and it’s name.
Picking one of the people’s names for the country would still be better than using your arbitrary name for the country.
OK, but most native speakers of a language have feelings towards their own language, and want to continue to speak it as they learnt it. Why should the speakers of a one language have any say over how the speakers of another language speak? What if I feel that Germans should stop using the word “Stuhl” and start using the word “chair” instead? My feelings are irrelevant because it’s not my language and have no rights or interests in the matter.
What happens in multilingual countries? Should the English-speaking majority of Wales be able to dictate to the Welsh-speaking minority that the country is called Wales rather than Cymru ? Should the English-speaking majority of England be able to dictate to Welsh-speaking Welsh residents of England that they should stop using the name Lloegr? Or vice-versa? Shall we call Switzerland Die Schweiz or La Suisse or Svizzera or Svizra? Do you think the German people - or perhaps the German government - should go and tell speakers of Sorbian that they have to stop calling Germany Nimska and must instead use a different word? Do you like where this is going? I mean there were never any problems in Germany before that smell similar to this.
No, this is all rubbish and nonsense. Let people speak their languages. Literally nothing bad happens if you do, and if you go the other way it opens a massive can of ethnically-oppressive worms where one ethnic group gets to tell others what to do.
What if I feel that Germans should stop using the word “Stuhl” and start using the word “chair” instead?
If you would be a people of the nation of chair, then yes. But turns out you’re not, because chair isn’t a country and you’re just making a useless comparison.
The only one who’s talking about forcing this on anyone, is you. So instead of getting all agitated over it you could just stop?
Anyway in your opinion Turkey has no right or reason to ask others to use it’s original Türkiye instead?
I’ll answer your question if you answer the questions I already asked about Wales, England, Germany and Switzerland. Though my position should be obvious.
Türkiye cannot in any reasonable sense be called “original” either - it’s the word naming the country in Turkish but like all words except those coined recently it has undergone etymological changes to become what it is today. Calling it “original” makes it sound like the Turks came up with a name they still use and the English got it wrong. That’s not what happened.
So does every person get called a different name in every country they visit? What about your pet?
It is normal - in most European languages at least - for proper nouns to be treated differently. And usually the names we use for places ARE the same across languages or at least extremely similar. I think it makes sense for someone to be surprised and curious in cases where that isn’t true.
And I find the reasons in this and a bunch of similar cases to be really interesting, often weird, and sometimes pretty stupid to still be in use. Including the name China (and variations of it).
No… I have a name. Someone talking to me in a different language doesn’t make my name different. It’s intuitive to think country names are the same.
Other languages use different characters or might not even be able to pronounce the name as they don’t have the sounds. It might be simple to think that, doesn’t make it correct.
You’d still expect to call them something similar to what they call themselves as best as another language can, but nope!
But they specifically said “There’s no reason to expect them to be the same in different languages.” Which there absolutely IS a reason to expect that.
Expectations end where knowledge begins, I guess.
Never said it was correct to not translate country names. Only that there is a reason to think they wouldn’t be.
Countries aren’t people though. And depending on language and context, this does happen, and used to happen even more. Finns might refer to a David as Taavi in Finnish. John Cabot’s name in Italian was Giovanni.
Never said we shouldn’t be translating the names of countries, only that there is a reason to think we shouldn’t. Because the comment I was replying to said “There’s no reason to expect them to be the same in different languages.”
My name is said differently in different languages, I’d expect nothing different
Your name is your name. Things like Jack versus Jacques or Matthew versus Mateo exist, but those aren’t your name.
I believe trump will be renaming it due to his ancestry.
While it is quite common that countries have different names in other languages, germany is special because it really has a lot of very different names. Alemagne in french, germany in englisch, deutschland in german, tyskland in danish, Niemcy in poland and so on.
There is actually a wikipedia article about it, that also explains the origin of the different names.
in Lithuanian it is Vokietija, of unclear origin, but possibly from Proto-Balto-Slavic *vākyā-, meaning “those who speak loud, shout (unintelligibly)”
DIESE ABSCHEULICHE UNTERSTELLUNG IST VOLLKOMMEN INAKZEPTABEL!
:D thats funny
Saksa in Finnish, no clue what the origin of that is. It doesn’t even mean anything that I know of.
Sachsen, germaaninen heimo/Saksin alue nykyisessä Saksassa.
The Saxons were a group of Germanic tribes/peoples. So similar in origin to “allemannia” (from the Alemanni tribes) and its variants in many other languages.
polish*, also your capitalisation of the name in different languages is totally random
Thats my german keybord autocorrecting some words while i try to write in english. I am too lazy to go through all the mistakes as long as one can get my point.
Not totally random. Consistently wrong, with only “Niemcy” out of line.
I think that means “mute” originally
isn’t Alemagne correct? or is it an error to capitalise a country’s name in French?
Since it’s at the beginning of a sentence, it’s correct either way :P
