Wrong picture, should be Dario/ Jensen
The moment it was clear they couldn’t figure out what the “Next Big Thing” was they started throwing shit at the wall before going “well if we can’t find the next best thing, we’ll force it on them!”
That’s how we got to where we are with AI.
To be fair, crypto only enabled scams, NFTs imploded because of how useless they are and the metaverse seems like a dystopia to most people. AI on the other hand has changed the way I do my job significantly. It’s not just a promise, it’s a genuinely powerful tool.
Its not just ___ its ____.
But fr, in academic fields its certainly helpful to have super human pattern recognition. In most fields, however, its just slop generation. Creative fields and now even code are being flooded with garbage and I dont think we’ll be able to fix it. Sure, some places are benefiting, but on the whole its just a massive black hole of hand-holding and flooding that we’ll be cleaning up for decades.
That is true job security. Being able to undo everyone else’s screwups. Such work kept me gainfully employed for 45 years.
“It’s not just a promise, it’s a genuinely powerful tool.”
Methinks you’ve spent too much time with GenAI LLMs or are a bot yourself. “It’s not x, it’s y”
The metaverse twist was certainly useless and realized in the most uninsipred soulless way, but vr otherwise has some utility and can be entertaining to a niche.
AI as so far realized has some utility, but a handful of asshats are similarly supremely obnoxious about it, and in my experience way more people are being obnoxious about it than it is useful.
a genuinely powerful tool.
As is a hammer. The issue is when you treat the solution to every problem as a nail.
LLMs are also great scam enablers.
To be left behind is nothing someone should be afraid.
Ageing a really funny experience. As a young person being left behind like that was unthinkable. I’d do anything to not get left behind. Now that I am a lot older I couldn’t care less if I get left behind. I’ve found what makes me happy, I don’t need to keep up anymore. It’s so freeing.
Actually, can they just leave me alone?
who is the first guy? i know the 2nd one is the zuckerborg, and sam altman is the 3rd one.
Is it Will Entriken?
Even if every developer has a max subscription and uses it to mostly or completely automate their coding activities…how many people is that? A few hundred thousand? Where are these supposed revenues going to come from?
Well, first of all, the max subscription is going to cost 10k a month, so jot that down
Don’t you worry! AI is gonna think of something…/s
Not arguing your point, but a few hundred thousand…?
If you’re going to be making an argument, at least get the most basic of your facts right.
Globally there are about 40-50 million software engineers. A hell of a lot more than a few hundred thousand. 1/10th of that is in the U.S.
I was guessing, sure, but apparently so were you:
https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-data-playground/
Even if the numbers are what you’re saying they are…and the same number of full-time developers transition to become full-time prompters (doubtful), and every one of them buys a $100 a month subscription that’s only 60 some odd billion a year. They’re projecting revenues to grow into the trillions per year. Literally how?
My clients have accountants, pms, service dept using claude too. for what I do not know. Having said that, I agree I am not sure how this money pit will make money. the plan seems to be nvidia to keep dumping money into ai companies and then the ai companies from nvidia…
This is the future you don’t want to be left behind do you?
Can they just get in their little fucking bunkers already, and we can seal them off? Not many guillotines required, the stupid fucks can corner themselves and rot… much easier
The Guillotine is a great historical thought, though. Just look at the exemplary oasis of equality that’s France.
To be fair, nfts and vr were never forced on consumers quite like AI is. VR is incredible for certain types of gaming. NFTs are also incredible too. They allow you to quickly identify morons with disposable income.
Notably VR also generally wasn’t the main pitch. It was just seen as axillary. The reason they promoted it as the next big thing, was the “”“metaverse”“”. Definitions varied, but it was generally a social media platform owned by the seller, and/or was virtual real estate.
NFTs are also incredible too.
You had me in the first half, ngl
I upvoted the comment while reading it, then removed the upvote, then put it back.
Correct, the only idiotic thing about VR is buying your hardware from Mark Zuckerberg. As the folks in the VR community here are already aware, I got my Steam Frame the other day and basically the only reason I’ve had to take it off my face since then is because the thing has a finite battery life.
It’s funny how people were comparing the Frame to Quest, saying it’s DOA because of the price, niche device only for a few enthusiasts.
Meanwhile, the Frame is flying off the shelves and the waitlist seems to be twice as long as the number of the units available. :(
It turns out there really is a market for a standalone capable wireless headset provided that it actually respects your privacy.
It’s a good product that doesn’t request you to sell your soul to use it. It’s definitely expensive but for people who have that money and are into VR it’s the best thing ever.
It also has the valve factor. In a landscape that consumer electronics are anti consumer, it’s more alluring to buy something you might not need if it’s not enshitified.
For example, I don’t really need a steam controller but boy do I want one.
I’m on the waitlist and can’t wait to get my hands on it. I’m a gamer since the 80s, and it’s the first VR device i actually can’t wait to get my hands on. The prospect of getting a VR headset that is as well supported as any valve hardware while not spying on me is simply great. If others are like me, it explains a lot why the line is so long.
Edit: My specific use case is as an replacement for a large TV for playing games on. It takes less space and is less invasive than any Smart-TV nowadays.
I wish it was flying. I managed to get on the reservation list (not waitlist) and two weeks later I am still waiting for my turn to even order one. Valve seems completely overwhelmed with the demand. Good for them I guess but come on, I haaaate waiting.
Man, don’t even get me started. I’m on the waitlist, so I don’t expect to get my hands on it within a year…
You don’t really want any more battery than absolutely necessary strapped to your face. Put a power bank in your pocket for longer sessions.
Given that the battery in the Frame is not readily swappable, that’s your only choice. I’m already on it, of course.
I found a Meta Quest 2 at a thrift store for 20 bucks. It needed a new face cushion so I ordered one online and a Meta Quest 3S showed up instead.
So, like, hopefully one day they’ll be CFW for it.
Most of us can’t drop 1k+ on a headset. My oculus which I got for 300 is still going strong after 2 years. And no, you don’t need a FB (edit: META) account. Piracy is also quite available for us 3rd world countrymen
you do need a meta account, at least when I setup mine.
All the joy of Steam, pumped directly into my eyeballs? Yes, please.
And all the joy of also being a small Linux computer, still with the eyeballs thing. Hit “desktop” in the hotbar on the bottom and you’re looking at a KDE environment.
Most programs can also be opened into a separate full-screen styled floating window you can stick wherever in virtual space, independent of the base desktop.
Swappable battery back?
I’ve got a 100W charger with a long cable and a 50000mAh power bank for the go. The hotswappable battery pack they said they will release is nice, but it’s not a have-to-buy thingy.
Think Valve said something about that in the future. Also you can use a power bank while using was also mentioned. If I’ll get the money I’m definitely buying steam frame rather than to buy spy hardware.
Can you explain why you love it so much? I was going to give it away to my friend that did not win the lottery after only a day.
Battery life is terrible. Interface outside of games is super unintuitive imnho. I still can’t figure out how to actually move the central window or right clock in desktop mode. I also can’t figure out how to install apks. I want to install android plex. And the game I had super high expectations for, the 11 table tennis is meh.
Overall my experience has been very sweaty and frustrating. I’m genuinely curious if it really sucks or I’m just not the target audience. I really wanted to love it, but I find it not worth the money at all. Like $500 maybe would’ve been ok. To be clear, I’m very technical - both professionally and as a hobby.
You can move the main center window and the dashboard bar by grabbing the long skinny horizontal stripe beneath either them, same as moving any other floating window. Unless you hit “float in world” on the center window the dashboard/taskbar/clock will remain pinned to the bottom of it.
The inverse L shaped grab handle on the lower right of any window allows you to resize it. When you are holding it, pushing the analog stick forward or back will move it closer to you or farther away.
Word on the street is that you can use FrameDrop to put .apks (and other executables) into your Frame’s library. I haven’t had occasion to try it; my main interest in onboard software has been regular productivity-ish apps that run natively in Linux. I stream actual games from my desktop PC, which is approximately three million times more powerful than the Frame itself.
I think the second panel is not referring to VR in general but rather Metaverse specifically.
Jokes aside, they all have something in common: a technology that can be useful in some very specific niches, but is advertised as a solution to all problems in the world and usd in large scale for things they shouldn’t be used for, just to grab investors’ money
common: a technology that can be useful in some very specific niches, but is advertised as a solution to all problems in the world and
It is disappointing that, of the three, only NFTs fulfilled the promise and have solved literally every problem*.
*
…for those whose only problem is a need to launder money.
money laundering is a necessary industry
Yeah, I honestly don’t know of any tech that has been pushed so hard. NFTs were never something large companies were interested or invested in, and VR was always a niche product. I find AI useful for certain things, but I hope this bubble bursts as soon as possible…
Your Reddit account had a NFT wallet for avatar cosmetics for a while
did they get rid of it?
Yes. Because it could be gifted to others who could then use it however they liked, some governments realized that it could fall under commercial regulation so Reddit got rid of it in a flash.
VR and AR both have massive unrealised potential. It just seems the tech isn’t quite there to break through just yet, especially for AR.
AR has so many unsolvable privacy issues it’s wild …
It’s solvable if you take surveillance capitalism out of the equation, just as Valve are doing. AR with Meta behind it will never be something that is socially acceptable since their whole business model is selling out the user and everyone around them. With a company like Valve which has a pretty good track record regarding privacy (a.k.a the only things transferred regarding usage are what games you play to make store recommendations fit your taste and bug reports if you approve them) i can see a wider adoption taking place.
I don’t think that’s true, your personal privacy as the owner of the device is one thing, everyone else’s right to not be continuously photographed is another. Having Valve operate it over meta doesn’t solve that. Also, what happens when Gabe does and the investment bank that buys it decides they want to sell everyone data to maximise profit?
These things can be done in a privacy respecting way for other parties too. The computational power needed to realize a person is in the field of view and to process this person saying “i consent” is in everyones pocket nowadays.
I think if you can plan for somehow allowing concent for these things then you can also plan for bypassing it. Also it would need to film you to work out if you don’t consent and then it’s already breached the consent.
There’s a difference between passively waiting for a voice command by a person identified in RAM and storing these things. And sure, there will always be people breaking the rules, but if you actually try to make the product secure, the vast amount of people will NOT be fucking around with that.
Take Metas PervGlasses for example: There’s a LED that shows it is recording. You can remove that light with a simple dremel, and no one at Meta even thought about implementing a simple check like making the LED flash a OTP code to be recognized by the camera at the start of recording. It makes a whole lot of difference who is developing these things, trust me.
Honestly I don’t need a camera or anything integrated but I’d love to have an integrated screen for my glasses. Would be nice when putting things together to just sync it with my phone and just have it there, also maps. Look I have to wear glasses all the time might as well add a tiny bit more utility.
These exist
But are they intigratable in pre existing glasses? My prescription is non negotiable due to how bad my eyesight is without and I can’t do contacts. Also having them sync with my phone and having them do little to no processing would be my preferred method, rather than having them contain all the computational shit themselves.
GPS with accelerometers should be able to work out where you’re standing and where you’re facing, so you could have navigation with a floating marker over the turn you need to take instead of just having a mini-map, too.
Maybe but I’d personally prefer the mini-map, I’ve a built up hatred of floating way points.
That’s not AR though is it?
Kinda depends on the definition on that one, personally I would consider a IRL HUD to be a low level version of that since it would be intigraing those systems in a pretty intimate way.
We’ve mostly been looking in to how it can be utilized in a production environment with detailed machine stats at a glance, live setpoints without having to be near the control panel, aids for maintenance…that sort of things
That could be helpful, I think most tech and inlecs would find it more annoying than anything …
The meta display glasses would be cool if not for the whole meta part. You don’t even need to be able to access the camera. It should just be used for tracking.
That’s not really AR then is it, AR requires the overlay on reality, I guess it could be like a game OSD but a lot of that detail is probably more annoying than anything. A live map might be good sometimes, but do I need my heart rate showing all the time in regular day to day life? is it helpful to have a shopping list taking up space in my vision all the time? How do I interact with it if it can’t see my hands, do I then have to talk to it constantly to manipulate it? Can other people manipulate my OSD while I’m using it by saying the right thing? Seems pretty gimmicky …
No, not what I meant. I meant environment tracking, hand tracking, everything.
WE don’t need access to the camera for AR to work, the device just needs to be able to process the video stream.
The problem isnt your privacy, it’s everyone else’s. If there are glasses with cameras then some arsehole is running around photographing people without their permission. You might argue that if you’re out in public then you can be photographed but that’s a shit attitude, if someone is walking around photographing people they should at least have to make it obvious so people can have a say at the time or at least know about it before it turns out they are now an AI deepfake pornstar.
Yeah, that’s why you block user access to the camera.
at least in the US you don’t need permission to record people in public spaces.
That’s because the company that is behind most of the stuff being released is Meta. Noone likes Meta. I can’t even imagine Zuck liking Meta.
I’m in my 40s and I just want to let you know that people have been saying this since I was 16.
Which is one of many reasons I’m not running out to buy a VR/AR rig.
Unfortunately there isn’t a lot of money in that market anymore, since it’s not AI.
Hard disagree on VR.
As far as I can tell, VR is 100% fully realized. In the future, you will be able to do everything you can do in VR right now and nothing more than that, but it will be a better experience, smoother, higher res, faster frame rates.
I think that it if there were a really compelling use case, people would put up with the current technical limitations to go do it.
I think we’ll slowly see adoption rise as software support & comfort improve, but this is basically the VR landscape: sims, games, porn, and some creative stuff.
I think the only really ground breaking thing would be if res became affordable enough to replace a 70" TV at a reasonable price, that–plus how much 3D kicks ass in VR–would definitely move some units.
VR is cheap enough to replace a TV, just not good enough yet.
If you’re looking at new, a Quest 3S is the cheapest at $350, the equivalent of a Samsung UHD 55 inch TV. Not really cheap enough. But probably a VR headset is never going to be able to compete head-to-head with a TV because it has to have a higher resolution than the TV in a smaller space, so it’s always going to be more expensive. My hope is that it just gets good enough, maybe 1080p PPD equivalence while TV manufacturers keep chasing resolutions that don’t make a difference.
I get nauseated very fast with a vr headset and I don’t think it will improve, there have been several generations of improvements where people have told me they are so good now, and every time I feel like crap within a minute or two.
I think that is another major problem with vr, it’s unusable by some percentage of people that I think is significant enough to affect the market (or lack thereof).
You’re absolutely right that is a major problem. The biggest reason is the mismatch between what your inner ear says (we are not moving) and what your eyes tell you (we are moving). I get nauseous really easily in VR.
That said I just bought a steam frame and have had pretty good luck because of how I’m using it. It’s completely wireless and I have a large space I can use it in. So I’ve been playing things that don’t require fast movement and where you have a space to explore / move around in. This allows me to physically walk around the real room while exploring in VR. It’s made a huge difference but not everyone has the luxury of a big empty room they can use for that. I just mention this in case anyone else was like me and wants to do VR but gets nauseous easily.
I’ve found an acid test for susceptibility to VR sickness. Driving in VR.
Most brains know what it feels like to be in a car, in control or otherwise. Feed in only the visuals of “being in a car” and watch the face turn green in tandem with the brain’s ancient “we’ve eaten poison!” subroutine kicking in.
In Elite: Dangerous, I can pirouette a Vulture round an asteroid field -permaboosting with flight assist off- shooting other ships all day long. Drop an SRV onto a moon and drive 100 metres, pass me the sick bucket.
I put this down to having plenty sensory memory of “car” but none of “high velocity space fighter”.
I have the reverse issue - i have absolutely no problems with my eyes saying something’s moving and my inner ear says i am stationary as in VR, but put me in the back seat of a car without the option to focus a far away point with my eyes and i get travel sick in a few minutes (some driving styles exacerbate the problem - aggressive stop and go in city traffic makes me puke in about 15 minutes with no way to avoid it - when an acquaintance of mine drove me home i actually made him stop after about 10 minutes so i could empty my stomach into the gutter).
Yup, that’s definitely a real problem for broad adoption. Technically solvable, I think, if lag and frame rates improve enough, but I don’t know if it’s feasible, and there’s likely a bell curve where the cost to accomodate sensitive people isn’t worth it.
It’s also possible you could train yourself to get used to it, though it might take you more time than most, but what would be a stong enough motivation to get through that? And you’d need to basically buy a VR head set and wear it a few more seconds every day until you could get some use out of it. Pretty insane ask.
It’s like chatbots, I don’t have a use case for a computer kissing my ass. People tell me “oh set it up on your home computer and VPN in and then you can confidentially tell your sycophantic chatbot to cancel the meeting”.
I would rather just cancel the meeting?
The chatbot is just as likely to tell you it canceled the meeting without cancelling the meeting.
There was a recent talk by the guy that started Zoom and he was pushing an AI technology that would attend meetings for you. It was so ridiculous because the ultimate dream would be a bunch of AI chatbots attending a meeting on behalf of their operators, and what would the point of that even be?
I think it was Angela Collier on YouTube if you want to share some rage.
My current employer is pushing AI HARD. Like “throw out old processes, 10x everything, the singularity is here so we can’t work the way we always have”.
The thing is, the best use case for AI I have found is replacing middle management. The bots are pretty good at summarizing a bunch of PRs and doc updates into weekly bullet point progress updates (which is 90% of how those managers are judged). I’ve flirted with the idea of making an AI team manager to replace the helicopter EMs and PMs and let the devs focus on the dev’ing.
That idea got shut down quite quickly… wonder why.
+1
Severe motion sickness issues, even in traditional games, are more common than people think.
I can’t play Wolfenstein 3D because of that.
Yeah I don’t enjoy watching other people play FPS games either.
Really the best thing about AI is that it made everybody stop trying to make vr a thing as much, because you’re right, the use cases are already spelled out and it’s pretty much a dud (in terms of being shoehorned into everything).
You have to admit, though, the Metaverse was one solid comedy highlights reel from beginning to end.
One of my friends just set up a 3ds emulator for his VR headset. Pretty much the best way to enjoy the 3d effect without original hardware, and the virtual screens are much larger
There’s a Virtual Boy emulator for VR headsets, too.
I always thought it could be useful to use NFT as a proof of ownership in a software, for example you buy a game you get an NFT that proves your ownership, down the line you sell the game to someone else, you handover the NFT and bam you are no longer the owner. But software companies won’t use that as it would create a resale value and THEY want to sell new games not le YOU sell your games.
I’ve thought about this to. I think that is the best use for them, the problem is it would require an internet connection to check the blockchain and authenticate that you still own it or it doesn’t work so it’s not ideal.
Silly lemmy user thinking tech is suppose to benefit the consumer.
/s
I played an MMO in 2002. People made financial transactions for things in a digital universe. That MMO shut down and the servers wiped around the time Bored Ape shit started. Made me laugh.
But then again, Steve Bannon once made a living selling WoW gold. Shit is wild.
VR is also great for movies!
Came here to say this: I get ton of enjoyment out of racing in VR. The rests is capitalism at its worst.
Favorite VR racing game? I’ve got a couple kits but I’ve never played a racing game in VR!
I mostly play arcade games with wheel (FFB) and vorpx. Favorite ones are Burnout Paradise, The Crew 1, Wreckfest, CarX Street and NFS Most Wanted.
Older games tend to have compatibity issues, lackluster ffb and driving feel, and sims don’t get my blood pumping. I like to drift and speed in an open world with music, so after about 10 years of testing various games and series, those are the ones I found to work well for me, run well, have nice FFB, and not require online servers to run.
I stole an NFT once, that was kind of cool.
You wouldn’t download a car
VR is cool and the new meta glasses that are basically a vr headset in a glasses form factor is the direction that will make it far better. Too bad it’s all ruined because it’s a meta product and they insist you have an account for what is undoubtedly the most aggressive data collection in the entire world
Idk why everyone is so excited about the glasses form factor for VR. Do you want to hurt your nose? Goggles imo will always be more comfortable for VR
Meta are dragging more open competitors along with them though, and showing that a market exists (but not the 80bn Metaverse Zuck promised).
deleted by creator
Software freedom: turns out we can choose our future anytime we want.
If this is the future, yes, please leave me behind.
“This is the future and if it fails I stand to lose billions so you definitely don’t want to be left behind, do you?”
At least VR is great for porn
I tried it once, in the early times. They hadn’t figured out the scaling at all. Lady was supposed to come sit in your face.
She didn’t get closer, she got bigger. Much bigger.
Would be phenomenal for the giantess crowd. Scared me off for life.
Edit : nobody press the arrows now leave it there
That sounds just horrible. Where is that, so I can avoid it at all costs?
Why is that point of view so rare in porn. It should be among most popular.
Because they’re too busy making everything stepsomething
Oh no stepgiant im stuck
i don’t need to read the title or even listen to the lines
It’s gotten better since then. Close ups still are a bit awkward but the scaling is much better.
in your face
she got bigger
screaming intensifies
ive been in the back of the line my entire life, so not a big thing
Poker in VR is social and fun. The rhythm games like Beat Saber and Pistol whip are pretty cool too.
This meme isn’t a jab at VR or any other single technology, VR is a good piece of tech. But its still one of those technologies that were way overhyped by tech bro billionaires.
Like remember how that big tech company renamed itself in hopes of making its name ubiquitous with a VR world that no one really wants other than those who thought they could make boatloads of money from it?
And I’m not saying that they are the only ones that want any VR world, I mean specially the one they were trying to build where they pretty much started with virtual real estate and ad space before even coming up with compelling reasons to use it at all. Also, the virtual reality that I’m really interested in isn’t the one where you strap screens to your face and have cameras or sensors detecting movement of specific hardware to act as input, but that’s all we have right now.
Lol I just realized this: I’m more interested in the Sword Art Online VR world that would kill you in real life if you died in the game than I am in whatever FB was trying to make. Like if a genie or something offered me the choice between trying either of those, the metaverse would be a quick no while trying a nervegear would require some thought.
Though not whatever comes out of Musk’s company. I have little doubt that he’s going to have at least some people working on hacking human brains, for things like mind control, finding secrets, or maybe even doing that thing where they make it look like you leave the simulated VR world but it actually just simulated taking a VR helmet off and now you’re stuck in Elon’s world until he lets you out or it breaks.
I remember playing a vr game at a frys electronics (rip) in the 90s. I have not seen a vr thing that exceeded that. They’ve gotten lighter at least, but the system they had was perfectly calibrated I guess
Did you know they have social poker in real life?
Social video poker, also (webcams).
VR certainly ain’t an enabling technology for poker.
Yeah but in the US it’s always a bunch of heavy smokers that want to play at those. Got tired of coming home and having to immediately take a shower
webcams require wearing clothes, vr does not
your opinion is wrong and mine is objectively correct
No mine is. Fight me (mud wrestling at dawn)
In many ways VR is a gimmick, but imo the biggest way it isn’t a gimmick is how it can emulate a sense of physical presence and make body language relevant in a way a grid of webcam feeds does not.
Strap in, baby. We are going an average of 120mph+ in a Cannonball Run-style race across the USA in American Truck Simulator. Plus, I can do this irl too if you want-- hey, get the fuck back here!
