Do the most evil or something like that
While my dream is to see something like PostMarketOS replace java junk Android someday, my immediate desire is to see Motorola kick Google’s ass with GrapheneOS.
If Moto doesn’t fuck it up by not having multiple options at different price points (I want to be able to have a flagship that can last, but want to see people that need mid or low tier also have real options). Then I would love to have a real option for ditching Samsung after so long. I just need the camera to be on par with my S24U and to have at least 12GB of RAM to help lasting for years without the old days of just feeling so slow after two years for me. Really doesn’t help that the RAM and NAND likely causing regressions while prices are the same or higher than stuff from last year.
But beyond those two personal wants, it will need for Moto to be in it for the long haul as the most important thing. Not just going back to only regular Android if this first release isn’t popular with mainstream buyers. Which is what I fear happening if the folks at the top and shareholders don’t see Samsung levels of sales.
Samsung levels of sales?? Moto??
Nah, they’ll just do like fairphone and let buyers decide between two OS’s
Grateful for this graphene os team.
They are doing a great job.Alienating google is not really a problem in my view, google is already alien and hostile to everyone so it changes nothing.
I don’t understand why the GrapheneOS Foundation can’t keep maintaining GOS on Pixel devices, while also collaborating with other manufacturers than just Motorola (which is a $77,000,000,000 multi-national corporation) towards more decentralized hardware that can serve their needs while also having the ability to be manufactured by multiple vendors in a white label way.
Relying on Google or Motorola for everything will eventually lead to the same issues, which is platform lock out. I have no confidence that the Motorola deal will fix everything forever.
I refuse to believe that the most secure OS can’t be installed on the most OSH.
It sounds like you don’t understand what the pixel phones are, what graphene is and what open source is.
The pixel phones used to be a reference implementation for an Android handset. A while ago Google decided to try to actually compete in the market and that meant designing hardware people would actually pick over a Samsung or whatever based on the numbers. So they put a chip in the new phone that doesn’t do emte because it makes everything slower.
Graphenes goal is to be the most secure phone os. That means they’re not competing against other Android based software packages, but against ios. It’s a tough row to hoe because whereas apple can develop hardware support for emte and software support across all first party apps and even offer it to developers in a very well documented framework then announce it in a big flashy press conference with the kicker that you can buy the system next month, graphene has to make it a granular switch system that will cause hangs, slowdown and crashes on even the aosp system apps.
Open source hardware doesn’t mean securable hardware. It’s easy to make open source platforms that are fundamentally insecure with no possible software path to remediation.
Now if you want to install some parts of graphene on unsupported devices there’s a fork out there, but it’s pretty stupid to do that since you’re giving up all the security of graphene and gaining all the roadblocks it puts in the way of doing insecure things with apps.
E: spelling
I don’t understand
It sounds like you don’t understand - TrollAccount69
Username accurate.
That’s some good clippin.
can’t keep maintaining GOS on Pixel devices
Where did you get this? It was never said that they can’t maintain it. Google just isn’t releasing the firmware and reverse engeneering every piece of it is a nightmare and at that point you might as well make your own brand.
collaborating with other manufacturers than just Motorola
towards more decentralized hardware that can serve their needs while also having the ability to be manufactured by multiple vendors in a white label way.
Because graphene isn’t a project that developes phones? Also, Youre still relying on snapdragon and other manufacturers to make key components of your phones.
I refuse to believe that the most secure OS can’t be installed on the most OSH.
Time to change your mind I guess:
First of all, OSS dosent mean runs on everything.
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Even if someone tried to port graphene to other hardware, they would have to remove key software from the port, like memory tagging, hardened malloc, etc. Which defeats the purpose of using Graphene over any other OS.
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OS also dosent mean secure, or even good. Just look at the insane amount of open source software wrappers and snakes.
Where did you get this?
Did you read the rest of the sentence? I said I refuse to believe they can’t maintain Pixel GOS while also simultaneously doing research & development on finding a non-corporate, non-Google, non-Motorola hardware solution. Many people are saying that GOS can’t do both. I refuse to believe that. GOS Foundation could set aside resources internally to figure shit out, if they wanted to. I don’t see any reason they don’t have the ability to do that.
Because graphene isn’t a project that developes phones?
I understand that. But corporate lock out by Google and I predict also Motorola will mean that GOS will perpetually need to jump from sinking ship to sinking ship. Having control of the hardware that doesn’t come from a corporation means that they can develop their most secure OS without worrying about an expiration date on the hardware. I’m not saying I want GOS to make their own chips and phones. I’m saying I want GOS to partner with at least one OSH manufacturer like Pine64, Jolla, Purism, Fairphone, F(x)tec, SHIFT, Volla, Liberux, etc. so THEY can work on the hardware while aiming to meet GOS’ requirements.
Time to change your mind I guess
I’m sorry, but privacy isn’t freedom. GOS isn’t the most perfect solution for all of time. I’m advocating for GOS to think about their future given a world of capitalism which seeks to destroy all our freedoms in the name of profit.
Even if someone tried to port graphene to other hardware
Existing hardware isn’t sufficient. THAT IS WHY I’M ADVOCATING FOR GOS TO PARTNER WITH OTHERS SO THAT EVENTUALLY THEY CAN MAKE THE SWITCH AWAY FROM GOOGLE/MOTOROLA WHILE MAINTAINING ALL FUNCTIONALITY OF GOS.
You do known it’s not some big organization right? Have you donated millions to the project to help this along?
I’m not really a programmer so I couldn’t really help in that capacity. I could donate but I also should donate to all of the other FOSS software that I use. What would be the best use of my money?
Somebody’s got to make the phones. You’re not going to find a bunch of modders who can manufacture millions of devices, so there’s gonna be corporate involvement somewhere along the line. Now that Google is no longer sharing the Pixel firmware, GrapheneOS is working directly with a manufacturer that will.
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You refuse to believe? So you are either willfully ignorant or consciously delusional.
Instead of crying on lemme why don’t you go educate yourself…
Toe the line by presenting an argument, if you believe I’m wrong.
Otherwise you’re cucked
Sorry that I’m not a software developer and cybersecurity and cryptography expert. I rely on the expertise of, for example, those who run the GrapheneOS Foundation.
Clearly, you know better than they do.
I really like reading some stuff like that from a website that summarises a few mastodon posts and additionally adds 10 ads and trackers.
How about posting the original source next time?
Why? Are gonna write article?
Me no write article. Will read original post that has like 5 sentence.
ear noise good
But you see my friend - most these stupid communities don’t let you just post random URLs. If people don’t understand what they are seeing they accuse you if being a bot. Article is fine IMO, phoronix I thought exclusively cover Linux and shit
But of course they would that. And it shouldn’t take too long until Google makes Android completely proprietary.
Can’t wait for the android with a forked bsd kernel that self destructs if you install Firefox
A boycott-divest-sanction kernel? Hell yeah!
android with a forked bsd kernel
That sounds fantastic actually, where do I sign up?
Shaming Google will only work for so long. Grapheme is is doomed to fail as long as it has a complete dependence on Google’s whims.
Have they announced the pivot to a non-android platform? Being security-mind it is frankly bizarre they have long ignored the Google dependency as a huge risk for the project.
they have long ignored the Google dependency
What a silly thing to say.
I’m absolutely certain that no contributors, and extraordinarily few users, are ignoring the risks implied by the google dependency.
A pixel with Graphene is the best option for a daily driver for as long as it’s viable. I expect that’s everyone’s understanding of the project.
I don’t really see how this project can “pivot to a non-android platform”, as I imagine none of their codebase can be transferred.
Sooner or later the project will become non-viable and we will all switch to whatever the best option is at that time.
Sooner or later the project will become non-viable and we will all switch to whatever the best option is at that time.
Or everybody who isn’t Google will have to collaborate on a hard fork of AOSP.
Or some governments will have to finally break out of their oligarchic regulatory capture and step in with antitrust law.
Biggest hope would be the French government to do stuff to help out Murena
AOSP is the most secure base. GrapheneOS focus is to be the most secure OS. Not to be the best open source mobile OS or even to be FLOSS.
Notice how they’re complaining only about things that could improve security, not general usablity fixes.
Oniro OS is pretty secure.
I will never understand this argument. Why in gods name would it be better for them to switch to a completely different OS like Linux and essentially have to destroy the entire ecosystem and start from scratch vs just hard forking current AOSP and maintaining it themselves?
I agree, but to be fair, the current way involves completely obscured binary blobs for nearly every part of the hardware. Which is the main lock-in to be had on Android devices.
Even the pixel under GOS is using the proprietary device tree. There’s no getting away from that unless you can RE the hardware and write your own drivers, which is impossibly hard for anything relatively current.
him no big brain why use many ideas and words?
i mean, i think there would be a lot of merit in maintaining a minimal linux platform that’s basically just an android VM, that way it’s basically infinitely easier to port to new devices and sandboxing becomes quite ironclad.
Idk if i am missing someting, but what Plattform other than Android is suitable? Linux is just not there yet and people want a phone they can use easily, which graphene is and Linux is just not there yet i think
That’s exactly my point, there’s none and GrapheneOS are not working to create a suitable one yet.
The time to start working on plan B is yesterday
Likely plan B is fork AOSP and crossport security fixes, such features as Google deigns to put in AOSP and so forth. They can do that at any time they choose, may as well wring as much work out of the big G as possible, later is better. Remember their focus is security, it just happens to benefit privacy as well.
Here’s hoping they can hang on long enough that there’s a viable hardened Linux phone to take the role.
OniroOS could be a good base.
They don’t particularly like Linux as a platform from a security standpoint:
But somehow Android, which is based on Linux, somehow checks those points for them…
The hipocrisy is too big to ignore and it’s true, with that mindset of just wanting and waiting for someone else to do the hard work for them to just add patches here and there… they’re doomed to fail.
I don’t think you understand how different Android and Linux distributions truly are.
Linux alone refers to the kernel. There are custom AOSP kernels based on the Linux LTS versions with a few extra patches but that is basically all that connects Linux to Android.
But absolutely everything in userland is wholly diifferent in Android than with any Linux distribution out there.
And you can’t just replicate what Android did on top of the Linux kernel without Google amounts of resources. Which GrapheneOS does not have in the slightest.
I don’t think you understand how different Android and Linux distributions truly are.
But they’re both things that drive on the same road, using wheels and engines and steering wheels and seats and doors!
Yes, and one is a car and one is a semi truck. (I’m not saying either is close to those things, the point is how different Android and Linux are)
Yeah but I think that’s just changed with ai.
The increased hardware prices and pr spam make it worse.
WHAT???
Look I’m coding with ai every day.
Can we please stop pretending it don’t increase productivity 100x
Android uses the Linux kernel but is not a GNU Linux distro if you need a distinction.
Maybe they need to look at haiku. :-p
How the fuck will words
Make any real difference
This is joke - please clapComedy is hard
Sometimes a joke just won’t work
Clap clap clap clap cap
cap
wait, is that a threat? Are you threatening to cap my ass?
:)
Typing, too, is hard
Not a threat, but a fuckup
Haha, no cap fam
No cap fr chat
We do be bussin out here
💯💯💯💯💯
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i bet that thing of google cutting security stuff for pixel11 was because the government complained about graphene making it unhackable
According to Graphene they think it is cost cutting. Since it uses a lot of space.
It’s probable and now they aren’t even hiding themselves anymore.
Graphene’s problem is that its very high firmware and other requirements mean they have to stand on the shoulders of giants. Their problem is that the giant is Google.
They would probably need huge resources to do that on their own, which is why they have to rely on the maintenance effort of some large company.
They announced a partnership with Motorola and said it will makes things better for them.
Supposedly. Yet Motorola doesn’t have the reputation to be frantical about their firmware and security updating. Also, they are not at the source either, Google is. That also adds delay. We will see how the partnership with Motorola will work out in practice.
“frantical”?
Is that a cromulent word?
Indubitably
Maybe, frantic or fanatical.
It’s interesting to hear it has high hardware requirements. I didn’t know that. That sounds similar to the problem that also causes planned obsolescence in phones generally.
High requirements not as in performance but hardware security feature. But that is the easy part as far as I understand. The difficult part is the requirement of super fast and constant security patching.
Ah, I see.
ive seen the same news on reddit and lemmy. reddit was like “omg gimme that feature, even i dont use it, it is my right”. lemmy is like “are you insane? just get a better platform, your dependency from google is going to kill you”
God I hate google so much
I feel like this sort of friction is inevitable. Ideally we’d just move on from Android one day, but that’s asking a lot. Not completely, but something that can still support Android apps.
Good. Software needs to go back to boring.
I feel vindicated for pivoting to Ubuntu Touch. It’s far from secure and is admittedly inferior to Android right now, but at least it has no dependence on Google. I kind of saw this coming the second they annouced closing down Android and making security fixes no longer open source
It has security through obscurity, for what that’s worth. As in, no one’s tailoring large-scale phishing efforts and the like towards a Linux phone. Also, being willing to daily drive a Linux phone probably means you have good enough opsec awareness to avoid becoming low-hanging fruit.
All bets are off if a nation-state or the likes of Palantir go after the platform or a specific user/device, but you’re Probably Safe™ from most run-of-the-mill bullshit targeting phones these days. Your phone might not be secure in a technical sense, but the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze.
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