I don’t understand why the GrapheneOS Foundation can’t keep maintaining GOS on Pixel devices, while also collaborating with other manufacturers than just Motorola (which is a $77,000,000,000 multi-national corporation) towards more decentralized hardware that can serve their needs while also having the ability to be manufactured by multiple vendors in a white label way.
Relying on Google or Motorola for everything will eventually lead to the same issues, which is platform lock out. I have no confidence that the Motorola deal will fix everything forever.
I refuse to believe that the most secure OS can’t be installed on the most OSH.
It sounds like you don’t understand what the pixel phones are, what graphene is and what open source is.
The pixel phones used to be a reference implementation for an Android handset. A while ago Google decided to try to actually compete in the market and that meant designing hardware people would actually pick over a Samsung or whatever based on the numbers. So they put a chip in the new phone that doesn’t do emte because it makes everything slower.
Graphenes goal is to be the most secure phone os. That means they’re not competing against other Android based software packages, but against ios. It’s a tough row to hoe because whereas apple can develop hardware support for emte and software support across all first party apps and even offer it to developers in a very well documented framework then announce it in a big flashy press conference with the kicker that you can buy the system next month, graphene has to make it a granular switch system that will cause hangs, slowdown and crashes on even the aosp system apps.
Open source hardware doesn’t mean securable hardware. It’s easy to make open source platforms that are fundamentally insecure with no possible software path to remediation.
Now if you want to install some parts of graphene on unsupported devices there’s a fork out there, but it’s pretty stupid to do that since you’re giving up all the security of graphene and gaining all the roadblocks it puts in the way of doing insecure things with apps.
Where did you get this? It was never said that they can’t maintain it. Google just isn’t releasing the firmware and reverse engeneering every piece of it is a nightmare and at that point you might as well make your own brand.
collaborating with other manufacturers than just Motorola
towards more decentralized hardware that can serve their needs while also having the ability to be manufactured by multiple vendors in a white label way.
Because graphene isn’t a project that developes phones? Also, Youre still relying on snapdragon and other manufacturers to make key components of your phones.
I refuse to believe that the most secure OS can’t be installed on the most OSH.
Time to change your mind I guess:
First of all, OSS dosent mean runs on everything.
Even if someone tried to port graphene to other hardware, they would have to remove key software from the port, like memory tagging, hardened malloc, etc. Which defeats the purpose of using Graphene over any other OS.
OS also dosent mean secure, or even good. Just look at the insane amount of open source software wrappers and snakes.
Did you read the rest of the sentence? I said I refuse to believe they can’t maintain Pixel GOS while also simultaneously doing research & development on finding a non-corporate, non-Google, non-Motorola hardware solution. Many people are saying that GOS can’t do both. I refuse to believe that. GOS Foundation could set aside resources internally to figure shit out, if they wanted to. I don’t see any reason they don’t have the ability to do that.
Because graphene isn’t a project that developes phones?
I understand that. But corporate lock out by Google and I predict also Motorola will mean that GOS will perpetually need to jump from sinking ship to sinking ship. Having control of the hardware that doesn’t come from a corporation means that they can develop their most secure OS without worrying about an expiration date on the hardware. I’m not saying I want GOS to make their own chips and phones. I’m saying I want GOS to partner with at least one OSH manufacturer like Pine64, Jolla, Purism, Fairphone, F(x)tec, SHIFT, Volla, Liberux, etc. so THEY can work on the hardware while aiming to meet GOS’ requirements.
Time to change your mind I guess
I’m sorry, but privacy isn’t freedom. GOS isn’t the most perfect solution for all of time. I’m advocating for GOS to think about their future given a world of capitalism which seeks to destroy all our freedoms in the name of profit.
Even if someone tried to port graphene to other hardware
Existing hardware isn’t sufficient. THAT IS WHY I’M ADVOCATING FOR GOS TO PARTNER WITH OTHERS SO THAT EVENTUALLY THEY CAN MAKE THE SWITCH AWAY FROM GOOGLE/MOTOROLA WHILE MAINTAINING ALL FUNCTIONALITY OF GOS.
Somebody’s got to make the phones. You’re not going to find a bunch of modders who can manufacture millions of devices, so there’s gonna be corporate involvement somewhere along the line. Now that Google is no longer sharing the Pixel firmware, GrapheneOS is working directly with a manufacturer that will.
Sorry that I’m not a software developer and cybersecurity and cryptography expert. I rely on the expertise of, for example, those who run the GrapheneOS Foundation.
I don’t understand why the GrapheneOS Foundation can’t keep maintaining GOS on Pixel devices, while also collaborating with other manufacturers than just Motorola (which is a $77,000,000,000 multi-national corporation) towards more decentralized hardware that can serve their needs while also having the ability to be manufactured by multiple vendors in a white label way.
Relying on Google or Motorola for everything will eventually lead to the same issues, which is platform lock out. I have no confidence that the Motorola deal will fix everything forever.
I refuse to believe that the most secure OS can’t be installed on the most OSH.
It sounds like you don’t understand what the pixel phones are, what graphene is and what open source is.
The pixel phones used to be a reference implementation for an Android handset. A while ago Google decided to try to actually compete in the market and that meant designing hardware people would actually pick over a Samsung or whatever based on the numbers. So they put a chip in the new phone that doesn’t do emte because it makes everything slower.
Graphenes goal is to be the most secure phone os. That means they’re not competing against other Android based software packages, but against ios. It’s a tough row to hoe because whereas apple can develop hardware support for emte and software support across all first party apps and even offer it to developers in a very well documented framework then announce it in a big flashy press conference with the kicker that you can buy the system next month, graphene has to make it a granular switch system that will cause hangs, slowdown and crashes on even the aosp system apps.
Open source hardware doesn’t mean securable hardware. It’s easy to make open source platforms that are fundamentally insecure with no possible software path to remediation.
Now if you want to install some parts of graphene on unsupported devices there’s a fork out there, but it’s pretty stupid to do that since you’re giving up all the security of graphene and gaining all the roadblocks it puts in the way of doing insecure things with apps.
E: spelling
Username accurate.
Where did you get this? It was never said that they can’t maintain it. Google just isn’t releasing the firmware and reverse engeneering every piece of it is a nightmare and at that point you might as well make your own brand.
Because graphene isn’t a project that developes phones? Also, Youre still relying on snapdragon and other manufacturers to make key components of your phones.
Time to change your mind I guess:
First of all, OSS dosent mean runs on everything.
Even if someone tried to port graphene to other hardware, they would have to remove key software from the port, like memory tagging, hardened malloc, etc. Which defeats the purpose of using Graphene over any other OS.
OS also dosent mean secure, or even good. Just look at the insane amount of open source software wrappers and snakes.
Did you read the rest of the sentence? I said I refuse to believe they can’t maintain Pixel GOS while also simultaneously doing research & development on finding a non-corporate, non-Google, non-Motorola hardware solution. Many people are saying that GOS can’t do both. I refuse to believe that. GOS Foundation could set aside resources internally to figure shit out, if they wanted to. I don’t see any reason they don’t have the ability to do that.
I understand that. But corporate lock out by Google and I predict also Motorola will mean that GOS will perpetually need to jump from sinking ship to sinking ship. Having control of the hardware that doesn’t come from a corporation means that they can develop their most secure OS without worrying about an expiration date on the hardware. I’m not saying I want GOS to make their own chips and phones. I’m saying I want GOS to partner with at least one OSH manufacturer like Pine64, Jolla, Purism, Fairphone, F(x)tec, SHIFT, Volla, Liberux, etc. so THEY can work on the hardware while aiming to meet GOS’ requirements.
I’m sorry, but privacy isn’t freedom. GOS isn’t the most perfect solution for all of time. I’m advocating for GOS to think about their future given a world of capitalism which seeks to destroy all our freedoms in the name of profit.
Existing hardware isn’t sufficient. THAT IS WHY I’M ADVOCATING FOR GOS TO PARTNER WITH OTHERS SO THAT EVENTUALLY THEY CAN MAKE THE SWITCH AWAY FROM GOOGLE/MOTOROLA WHILE MAINTAINING ALL FUNCTIONALITY OF GOS.
You do known it’s not some big organization right? Have you donated millions to the project to help this along?
Somebody’s got to make the phones. You’re not going to find a bunch of modders who can manufacture millions of devices, so there’s gonna be corporate involvement somewhere along the line. Now that Google is no longer sharing the Pixel firmware, GrapheneOS is working directly with a manufacturer that will.
You refuse to believe? So you are either willfully ignorant or consciously delusional.
Instead of crying on lemme why don’t you go educate yourself…
Toe the line by presenting an argument, if you believe I’m wrong.
Otherwise you’re cucked
Sorry that I’m not a software developer and cybersecurity and cryptography expert. I rely on the expertise of, for example, those who run the GrapheneOS Foundation.
Clearly, you know better than they do.