Something is better than nothing. “I could never be a vegetarian/vegan because of bacon” “Ok, then eat vegetarian AND also eat bacon then?”
flexitarian is the way to go first: my understanding is thats its more controlled, not everyday (maybe even only to special occations) eating of meat
my understanding is thats its more controlled, not everyday (maybe even only to special occations) eating of meat
IS IT???
I thought flexitarian was someone who can perform very flexible oral sex. 🤯
Right? Anything is better then nothing
I cut way back on cheese because of the salt, also it’s expensive and high in calories. I could easily go through a large block (or even two--8000 calories!) of sharp cheddar in a week, and that was too much.
This is why I gave up red meat, and processed meat:
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-red-meat-bad-for-you
Here’s something you may not realize: The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classifies red meat as a Group 2A carcinogen, which is described as “probably carcinogenic to humans.” Carcinogens are substances with cancer-causing potential.
A review of studies on the relationship between red meat and cancer found that eating high levels of red meat is associated with a higher risk of:
Breast cancer
Colorectal cancer
Uterine cancer
Hepatocellular carcinoma
Lung cancerThat’s not all: Processed meats are categorized as level 1 carcinogens. This puts them in the same category as cigarettes and asbestos and means they’re known to increase your risk of cancer.
I like eggs. And baking.
My eggs are sourced from a dozen of the most spoiled hens I’ve ever seen. They have a half acre of bugs, grass, and weeds to run around in. They are more pets than livestock.
Whats the difference between vegans and vegetarians?
Dairy and eggs. Aka animal products that don’t involve flesh.
…unless you’re Catholic in which case you make up bullshit to spread your religion and call beavers and fish vegetarian for…reasons.
Vegetarians consume dairy products. Vegans don’t.
I’ve never tried to convince anyone to take up veganism. Instead I avoid bringing it up at all cost because people get weird about it.
Cast it into the fire! Grill it!
Great, now I want halloumi…
Could always source ethical human milk…and other cheeses.
My Hu-cow sub consents.
I feel like this creates some sort of hostility between two groups which usually head into the same direction and respect each other
As with politics, purity culture leads to being ineffective.
Coalitions are important if you want to get anything done.
Then there’s me, a pesce-pollotarian. Because not everywhere has fish.
You vegans sure a contentious people.
You just made an enemy for life!
No unity. No strength. No true scotsman.
Fight, fuckos, Fight!
I feel like it’s just a silly joke.
If you’re a vegan do this and partake in society, you are brain rotted.
That’s almost a real sentence
*(GASGÛL) They were once men; healthy men. Then Tongue the Deceiver gave to them nine rounds of Cheese. Blinded by their hunger, they took them without question, one by one falling into gassness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Gasgûl: Fartwraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the Cheese, drawn to the power of the lactose. They will never stop farting. *
One Whey to rule them all, One Curd to find them, One Stink to bring them all, and in Aroma blind them
Fun fact, cheese is not always vegetarian. It can (quite often) contain animal rennet (from the inside of a young cow stomage, the cow needs to die for this)
Unless, of course, we’re talking about the German Leberkäse (liver cheese), which, naturally, isn’t cheese and doesn’t contain liver.
What fresh hell is this?
Usage of animal rennet requires disclosure on the packaging, in my country, thanks to a majority of religions being against meat and stuff.
I would really like to be the case more often. I’m a cheese eating vegetarian and I have to look on the ingredients every time I buy cheese. Some brands will even switch from animal to microbial rennet and viceversa within the same product without warning.
i think most of the industry uses synthetic remnet.
As a person who check all cheese in the supermarket for this. The current state (EU/NL) is almost 60%, 60% of the cheese in our supermarket is without murdering baby cows. Which I up from last year, and it has been trending up for a while.
I have no clue how other countries are doing, my guess us worse. Some france people still label ‘Fish’ as ‘Vegan’
That number moves much closer to 0% if you start counting the baby cows killed in order to keep their mothers perpetually lactating, rather than just those whose bodies were used as a direct ingredient.
A cow will be impregnated 6-8 times during her life on a typical dairy farm, before she is killed af half her natural lifespan to be replaced by a younger cow. One of those baby cows will be raised as that replacement cow, the rest will be killed shortly after birth.
Killing baby cows is an inherent part of cow-milk production.
most dairy calves are brought to full weight before slaughter.
a man who has never eaten veal.
hardly any dairy calves end up as veal.
the math
https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/DataFiles/48685/milkcowsandprod.xlsx?v=1413.4
thousands_of_head_of_cows = 9448.0 actual_cows = 1000 * thousands_of_head_of_cows annual_male_calves = .5 * actual_cows veal_weight_of_calves_in_pounds = 260 annual_veal_production_in_millions_of_pounds = 58 annual_percentage_of_bobby_calves_that_become_veal = ((annual_veal_production_in_millions_of_pounds * 1000000) / (veal_weight_of_calves_in_pounds * annual_male_calves))*100 print(annual_percentage_of_bobby_calves_that_become_veal)4.722204129486094
a dairy cows life span is like 5 years
ours were closer to twelve but go off the documentary you watched once
A cows natural life span is 20ish years. They’re kept perpetually pregnant for years until their bodies give out, then they’re slaughtered at around 5 years old.
cows don’t naturally live to 20 years. they can live that long if they are well fed and watered and protected from disease, predators, and the environment. that’s an artificial life span.
That would be huge news if true but it doesn’t sound like you have a source
I’m not bringing any moral value, just the note that synthetic remnet is cheaper then real one, another commenter said that about 60% of cheeses use it,i thought it would be much more.
There are better fake cheeses these days. It’s easier to give it up than it ever was. And tons of pizzerias now offer vegan cheese pizzas.
But honestly giving up beef alone should be commended, just for environmental/climate reasons.
My child has dairy allergies.
The fake cheeses are just okay at best.
Daiya smells like dirty socks, especially when heated
My wife is allergic to dairy and it throws me off every time
Yeah, Daiya is terrible. My wife and one of my kids can;t eat dairy. Violife seems to be one of the better shredded !cheeses, but only when melted.
I mean, plenty of actual cheese is supposed to smell like dirty socks!
Also, here in Belgium, vegan Gouda is literally cheaper per kilo than actual, cheap Gouda.
I haven’t seen fake cheese that tastes good yet. A good tip is not to try to make vegan food taste like non vegan. Just enjoy the vegan foods as they are.
PS I’m trying the whole “give up beef” thing plus “be vegan one day of the week”.
A good tip is not to try to make vegan food taste like non vegan. Just enjoy the vegan foods as they are.
As a non vegan/vegetarian, I agree fully. By trying to replicate something else, the result often appears like a worse alternative.
I enjoy plenty of vegetarian and vegan foods, but don’t try and tell me that a plant based burger tastes the same as a normal burger, that just ruins the experience.
Play to your own strengths and don’t pretend to be something you are not, by doing that you reduce the stigma of vegan and vegetarian labels becoming associated with lower quality.
The concept of being vegetarian one day a week sounds like a brilliant idea, not sure that I would go the entire way to vegan across a full day, but a few vegan meals in a week wouldn’t be so hard.
While I understand your argument and fully agree that there are plenty of normal vegan dishes that hold there own, this point always comes from the non vegans 😅
Meat tastes good, and going vegan often means giving up favourite dishes that you grew up with. Having the mock alternatives means that when you do get that itch, you can still kind of scratch it. I also dont think it is fair to write them all of as inferior, there are some pretty incredible options these days.
No, having a mock alternative doesn’t sceatch the itch, it just reinforces how much better the real version of that thing was. While I haven’t tried them all, I have tried a lot due to recommendations by friends and every one has been like comparing turkey bacon to regular bacon. No, it isn’t even close.
I enjoy a lot of dishes that are vegetarian or vegan because they play to the strengths of their ingredients without pretending to be something else. Replicating the format is fine, many kinds of dishes share similar formats, but trying to compare it to something specific is a bad idea. I have had some vegsn sausages thst were great for example, but they are their own thing snd not comparable to beef, pork, or combination sausages and there is such a wide variety of meat sausages there is no need to compare it to anything specific. It can be its own thing!
a big part is the perception of what you’re used to, I rarely eat meat nowadays and when I do it tends to be game.
My burger patties have gotten to a point where I prefer them to any meat alternative, I’m not saying they’re the same. Outside of serving the same purpose in a burger, but it’s pretty wild I scoff at minced red deer meat now - It just doesn’t carry the same umfph
don’t try and tell me a plant based burger tastes the same as a normal burger
Go to burger king. Get a regular whopper and an impossible whopper. They are literally indistinguishable. Well, until an hour later when the impossible whopper gives you a ton of gas lol.
That’s a straight up case of dumping enough crap on top of each patty that you can’t tell what the hell you are eating anyway.
Try cooking each patty with nothing more than a bit of salt and eat them plain with nothing else, not even a bun, and then tell me you can’t taste the difference.
But then that wouldn’t be a burger…
If you need to hide the taste with all that crap, can it really taste good?
All that crap? You mean buns?
Exactly. I really dislike the taste of beef patty. But i tried a patty looking vegan product. It gave me the same bad taste.
Non vegetarian here. A vegan friend served me some vegan burger and I was absolutely shocked at how good it was. Did it taste exactly like beef? No. However it hit most of the spots to sate a craving I may have for one. The vegan cheese pretty much perfectly emulated american “cheese”, which I don’t personally use, but on a burger has a specific place. I have also introduce TVP into my normal diet. If you cook it right it can act as a very good alternative to crumbled ground beef. My friend makes a vegan chili dip that, if not told, almost everyone just assumes contains beef.
Other vegan cheeses I have tried are awful, even some expensive ones. My best friend doesn’t process animal protein, so was basically forced into eating vegan style. We have made some recipes from chefs online, mostly using various types of mushrooms, that are to emulate steak, that have been very good.
giving up beef alone should be commended, just for environmental/climate reasons.
Yes, but the post is about veganism, which is the ethical principle that it’s wrong to exploit animals. Cows enslaved for milk are in most cases worse off than those enslaved for their flesh as they are repeatedly impregnated, have their children killed, and are still slaughtered at a fraction of their lifespan just like the flesh cows.
There are certainly some vegans that do it for environmental reasons. Usually a bit of both though, but not all.
most dairy calves are brought to full weight before slaughter, and the life span of a dairy cow is about 5 years.
I’ve never cut beef out entirely but it is surprisingly easy to dramatically reduce how much one uses. Nearly everything that’s good with beef is also good with other meats. I also found doing meatless Mondays to be a great way to experiment with vegetarian/vegan dishes without feeling like I was missing out on anything and then I could take that knowledge into other days
I think a big problem is a lot of people are not confident in their ability to cook. They maybe know how to make a couple of their favorite childhood dishes and a couple things they picked up along the way, maybe. It’s hard to replace a burger with a portabello if you don’t know how to critically approach cooking temps and times so it ends up awful, or trying to cook a passable ratatouille and not knowing how to use a knife or having any spices in the cupboard
So I dont have to be a level 8 vegan to not be a POS?
Despite what a vocal minority on here would have you feel, no, you do not. Every small, positive change should be celebrated
We got a vegan Margherita for us 3hrn my vegan friend was visiting. Couldn’t notice a difference to a normal cheese pizza.
I mean: being vegan in anything but cheese is also already something.
Just skipping a meal with meat where you would usually have one is already a big step for the individual.
Käsespatzel 🤤🤤🤤
As a non-German living in Germany. Abendbrot goes hard. Like I didn’t expect it to be so enjoyable, but it’s tasty, easy, and cheap. I know it’s traditional to include cold cuts, but I usually just use cheeses and veggies. Fucking tasty
Your comment made me (a non-German who lived in Germany for a while this year) feel sad for not giving Abendbrot a chance
Kann man Speck rein machen!
Especially funny because while there are other things vegetarians will eat that vegans won’t (Other dairy, eggs), cheese is actually physically addictive because the same protein that makes it curdle breaks down through digestion into a substance that acts like dopamine. It really is the “one ring” of veganism and often the last / hardest thing to give up when one goes vegan.
wait so when i go to the fridge at 3am for cheese im basically literally eating happiness?
You’re taking a hit!
Rennet makes this a much more complicated decision for vegetarians. Like, if I know that the cheese was made with bacteria-derived enzymes, then that’s cool, but it’s really hard to know and trusting random cheese is just like still eating beef sometimes, so even though I’m vegetarian I end up being so picky about cheese that I hardly eat it anyway.
Spoiler: milk cows get murdered as well. A milk cow is productive for about 5 years, after which they usually get slaughtered for pet food. In that time, they need to have about 3 calves, to continue producing “good returns” amount of milk daily. Two of those calves are not needed to replace the cow, so they get - guess what? - slaughtered and processed to pet food.
Stupid me grew up next to a milk farm and didn’t realize that until way later than I care to admit.
Also, I still eat cheese (reduced amounts) and that’s a moral dilemma for me.
That ethical problem could be solved (well, not if you are “fully” vegan, and view even keeping pets and livestock, unacceptable), by doing good small-scale production. Factory farming producing the inhuman conditions, is needed to make the operations economically sustainable, in the way it is build into capitalist systems. But if you would keep the cows well, milk products could be made quite ethically… Now of course the costs needed to do that would make milk extremely expensive, and small-scale could not replace the massive demand, so people would have to consume way less anyway.
But if you would keep the cows well, milk products could be made quite ethically…
Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
Now eggs however, those could be absolutely produced without animal suffering. Just be willing to pay more for the eggs so that hens can live free range in natural environments, and still get to continue living when they produce less or even no more eggs until they die from natural causes.
I don’t see a big ethical problem with snatching an unfertilised egg, considering that hens are able to lay like one egg a day. They won’t miss it if you take away a bunch of them and let them breed out the odd one.
Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
This is doable, especially with the cows, that have been bred to produce milk. You do not even need to separate the mom and calf, for more than a moment, to milk, so we do know it is possible. You just get less milk, than by taking the calf away, so it is not profitable in comparison. There are other problems though, like they should be able to feed mostly by pasture grazing, which takes a lot of land, and if you do not kill some of the cows and bulls for food, you will have way too many… etc.
And with eggs - yes. The EU standards for “bio” eggs are already better (very far from perfect though), so it might be possible to do profitably even. A big ethical problem with factory farming chickens right now, though, is the process of mass producing the egg-laying chickens themselves. Hens are kept, but the male chicks might be just thrown into a shredder. Even if all of them were raised, a lot of the cocks would have to be killed, since there would be carnage otherwise, as you cannot keep them together, and you have to have multiple hens more than cocks in a flock. This also applies if you keep chickens in your backyard, so there are always excess cocks being given away, that nobody wants, and many end up as food.
I had to look up what that is.
If it’s any help, according to wiki 90% of cheese is made with artificial enzymes, because it’s cheaper.
It depends a bit om where you are and what kind of cheese. For instance in the EU, Parmigiano Reggiano always has calf rennet, otherwise it’s not allowed to have that name. Nowadays a lot of cheeses in the Netherlands do specify it on the ingredients list though.
