Not really “powertripping”. Just pathetic. Consider this a notice to avoid feddit.org… I’ve unsubbed and blocked the instance.
We can’t dehumanize fascists for their choice to dehumanize everyone for things outside their control though, because that would be mean, and hurt their sociopath feefees!
Europe stool idly by throughout the 1930’s “tolerating” fascism, and the Nazi’s killed over 100 million people. Don’t make the same mistake as the radical centrists of history. Fascists will not afford you the same tolerance or courtesy.
Hi, I happen to be a moderator on that community. I wouldn’t have banned you but I won’t put my partners’ decision under scrutiny if this is a temporal ban. If this ban is permanent, feel free to DM me, I’d like to review what happened here.
PS. Moderating communities is exhausting! And terribly difficult given my account is not on feddit.org
I’m going to assume this is a language thing. You really do sound like a nazi when saying “i wont put my partner’s decision under scrutiny” when the decision is to act like a nazi. You may want to reword or recend that comment.
And you sound like someone who is very quick to jump to conclusions without the full context.
They remove all hate speech, including any from actual nazi’s.
I don’t see how that makes anyone involved a nazi.I can see where he was coming
A three day ban is now apparently Nazi. This word has truly lost all meaning. You are lost ideologically.
I only meant to say that changing another mod decision would only be taken, after discussion with them, if there’s a clear and robust disagreement (a permanent ban). This, to me, is just a lack of agreement (a temporal ban).
I can see where he was coming
A three day ban is now apparently Nazi. This word has truly lost all meaning. You are lost ideologically.
Consider this a notice to avoid feddit.org… I’ve unsubbed and blocked the instance.
… but that looks like a mod/comm ban, not an admin/instance ban?
Yeah it’s Europe specific communities that do these bans.
Nazis nepo babies ruling Germany triggers them too.
It is kinda like Lemmy.world… It ain’t admins who are clowns but the mods of world news, news and politics… When Luigi happened they tried to blame admins but if you notice recently the most active Luigi community is on Lemmy.world.
So it seems like it ain’t admin but the mods who made the luigi censorship call. It had nothing to do with the law either…
Lying pieces of shit lol.
You’re right. I scrolled through the instances top communities. Most seemed political, and are pretty small, so I just assumed it’s a propaganda mill. Might not be.
It’s not a propaganda mill, feddit.org is the biggest German instance (since feddit.de essentially shut down)
feddit.org is the biggest German instance
Well there is your answer haha
I love how all these “europe” communities is just germans.
rest of us have to tip toe around their bad history and blind bootlicking of the nazi nepo baby regime which they will defend until froth comes out of their lying mouth lol
You do realize that in German culture, the horrific actions of the Nazis are taught from an early age, and Germans are highly dismissive of the movement?
Just because Nazis were primarily German in ethnicity doesn’t mean that the contemporary movement’s biggest proponents are also German. That honor falls to Americans.
And for fuck sakes. There were German Jews leading up to WWII. You’re monolithizing an ethnostate, which makes you look more than a tad ignorant.
Let’s stop this rabble, and focus on the point at hand: intolerating Nazis, wherever they come from.
rest of us have to tip toe around their bad history and blind bootlicking of the nazi nepo baby regime which they will defend until froth comes out of their lying mouth lol
Dude what on earth happened here.
I feel like this is just stirring up additional extra inter-instance drama for no reason. I haven’t seen any of this.
Who are some of the member of the regime you are not allowed to criticize on feddit.org? I want to try an experiment similar to the one from yesterday, to see if anyone shows up to defend those people until froth comes out of their mouth.
triggering talking points:
mutti merkel years and how she blundered big time nordstream pipelines german’s industrial base over reliance on russian gas which is was the real reason for german foreign policy vis-a-vis russia and eastern european states
“sure VW was a nazi enterprise but they atoned for their sins” sure buddy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche–Piëch_family
BMW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Quandt
There are dozens of them and they create the core group of german oligarchy. These people who actually drive German policy making esp with respect to Russia as their assets rely on cheap energy inputs.
To be clear, there families within US oligarchs classes to made their seed capital from slave labour and some even from collaboration with their nazi brothers. But Americans don’t nearly get as butthurt about such bad history.
PS. this topic deserves a proper study in of itself. I just find it entertaining how the german official narrative dances around it and when confronted can’t process it without having a melt down. Something about loving that daddy authority won’t permit them to see their oligarchy for it is.
until froth comes out of their mouth
Ah yes, more reasoned commentary. “jerking off in the corner like a pathetic cuck” “a bunch of limp dick clowns” and then you’re confused about why people are “frothing,” with their responses to you.
Cheers;)
I love how all these “europe” communities is just germans.
Germans are the second most numerous nation in Europe after Russians. Germany also has a very active political tech scene that pushes FOSS alternatives and cares about privacy (Datenschutz). For example Firefox has 20% desktop market share compared to 3% in the USA. Nextcloud and Mastodon are based in Germany.
So Germans being very present on Lemmy should not come at much surprise.
I love how all these “europe” communities is just germans.
Complete and utter rubbish.
To add to this, the “Bundestag” is elected in a week, which is why everything is about politics right now. It doesn’t help, that the political debate in Germany is extremely heated right now.
As they blocked feddit.org, they’re not gonna see your comment I’d assume
Pretty sure instance blocks only work on posts, not comments.
They don’t work on comments. I regularly see comments from .ml people even while having the instance blocked.
Always keep in mind the human on the other end. The human who has made their whole identity be about dehumanizing other people. Remember, remain respectful and considerate, only they get a pass at ignoring that.
Wait, why are governments suddenly falling to fascism!?!?
If you don’t believe in human rights for Nazis, you don’t believe in universal human rights.
Right to life is a the most basic one.
Arguments about limiting free speech is on a different level.
Fascists not caring about free speech, but exploiting it in bad faith, is the core of the argument and very valid.
A three day ban is fine for something like this.
For some context, this person is a Zionist, and with the genocide in Palestine, it’s not surprising that they would have nazi sympathies.
Of course the antisemites show up right away to spread their hate.
I have protested against and fought Nazis with my own fists since I was 16.
Of course the antisemites show up right away to spread their hate.
🤡
EST
Eastern standard time? I’m confused 😓
every single time a zionist appears, somebody is going to be accused of anti semetism.
this trash behavior was enabled for 70 years, but it seems the peasants are waking up to what it was really about.
I appreciate the explanation but I’m still confused on what EST means 😭
Every Single Time
Are you claiming that a person protesting against Israeli indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian men, women and children must be an antisemite?
No. What are you talking about?
The only thing he did was make an equivalence between Nazis snd Zionism. That comparison itself is already tantamount to Holocaust denial and thus antisemitic.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self determination. Denying the Jewish people this human right is antisemitic.
Zionism is nationalism. Mearly calling it a right to self-determination is disengenious.
On the other hand I agree that implying an equality between Zionism and Nazism (as in the facist ideoligy) downplays the severity of facism and the Holocaust in particular.
Yes, Zionism is Jewish nationalism, similar to Polish, Greek, Kurdish nationalism.
Yes, Zionism is Jewish nationalism, similar to Polish, Greek, Kurdish nationalism.
Although I don’t disagree with your core position, nationlism ≠ fascism
“Nazism is the right of the Aryan race to self determination. Denying the Aryan race this human right is anti-German bigotry”
That’s disgusting antisemitic and you know it.
Disliking Nazis is anti-German bigotry and you know it. Being anti-genocide is only motivated by hating the people doing the genocide and ethno-nationalism.
Your denial of the Jewishness of all those people who are Jews and are against Zionism or simply do not agree that Zionism represents them, is the true antisemitism here.
It’s not up to you and it’s not up to Zionists to decide that Zionism represents all Jews, it’s up to all Jews and a lot of them think Zionism doesn’t represent them, hence “Zionism” is not at all equivalent to “Jew” and hence anti-Zionism is not at all equivalent to antisemitic.
The previous poster’s metaphor is spot on illustrating your inherent anti-semitism in how you defend your beloved flavour of ethno-Fascist political ideology: Zionists claim that they represent an entire ethnicity - even against statements of members of that ethnicity that they do not - and then claim that criticism of Zionism is actually an attack on the ethnicity, going so far as explicitly calling actual Jews who are critical of Zionism “anti-semites”, all of which is exactly as the Nazis did using “the Arian Race” (including the detail of accusing members of the Arian Race of being “against the Arian Race” or “not real Arians” when they voiced opinions critical of Nazism) which is why the previous poster’s metaphor was perfect - how you and your ideological brothers position yourselves in relation to the Jewish People and use that self-proclaimed relation in your “arguments” is straight out of a Himmler manual on Propaganda.
You’re the only Racist in this room and by making arguments in the same style as Nazi Propaganda you out yourself as a rabid, Nazi-style kind of Racist.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self determination
May have been in XIX or in the first half of XX century. At the moment it is a deeply racist movement denying Palestinians the same rights Jews enjoy.
Also Israeli government, supported by Zionist parties is definitely including nazis. So while I don’t argue that zionism is equivalent to nazism I can see where he was coming from.
You are misrepresenting Zionism. It has always had different ideological strains.
If you believe in a two state solution, congratulations you are a Zionist.
I can see where he was coming
Demonization, delegitimization, antisemitism.
Demonization, delegitimization, antisemitism
Stop talking rubbish. Criticism of Israel and/or zionism is not antisemitic.
What the hell are these arguments, and why are you getting upvotes?
What the hell are these arguments
These are very common arguments. You’re simply ignorant about this discourse.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
This is the shaky part.
It is quite fair to make a comparison between Nazism and Zionism as long as someone frames Zionism as an attempt to eliminate Palestinians.
Your first sentence is simply incorrect. Nazis chose their lot. They weren’t born into it. Why are their lives Inviolate despite their expressed Desire to see others killed? They’re not Try again
Well, if you don’t believe in universal human rights, then your moral standing against Nazis is very shallow.
Vasily Zietsev didn’t stop the Nazis with moral standing.
There’s a difference of fighting back including killing to defeat an enemy or denying someone the basic right to life.
The first means you fight back until you defeat the enemy, the second one means after you defeat them you round them up and put them in camps to exterminate them.
It also means it limits your actions to those targets who actually hold power and not just anyone who has a Trump / Vance flag in their garden.
That was a war. He also didn’t check if German soldiers were party members or not.
If you believe in universal human rights either all of humanity or none of humanity should be imprisoned or persecution by the state. Thinking murderers should be punished means you don’t believe in human rights.
WTF are you even on about? If someone violates the rights of others, punishment is of course acceptable. Self defense or defending others is also acceptable. Rights are not absolute. They are for everyone.
I swear this place is filled with teenage tankies.
Dude are you a fucking dumbass?
Nazis themselves do not believe in the right to life. They are like cockroaches. They cannot be allowed to spread.
cockroaches
You are using literal Nazi rhetoric. You have no moral standing.
You are using literal Nazi rhetoric. You have no moral standing.
The Nazis aren’t the first to use the cockroach analogy, nor is it a particularly poor one to use when describing them
If we can’t do things because Nazis did them then there’s very little were allowed to do
Thank you for openly admitting that you cannot tell the difference between Nazism and opposition to Nazism. At least you admit it.
You seem to be completely bereft of self awareness. It’s remarkable really.
Y’all would’ve let the Nazis rampage across Europe to ‘not stoop to their level.’ I know for a fact, because you’re doing it now.
And the Germans kill the Jews and the Jews kill the Arabs and Arabs kill the hostages and THAAAAAAATT is the news
Is it any wonder
That the monkey’s confused?
And so on
By Roger Waters
Actually, this was a while ago, and there are a couple more layers to the cycle now, if you know where to look. Arabs killings Kurds, Kurds killing Turks. Some of the newer nodes are still forming and may or may not grow large, but they’re there.
Roger Waters
You are really citing this notorious antisemite?
Don’t make us laugh, you’re a smart kid
Time is linear, memory’s a stranger, history is for fools
Man is a tool
In the hands of the Great God Almighty…
So they gave him command of a nuclear submarine
And sent him off
In search of the Garden of Eden
“The Final Cut” is quite good, too. It’s a big song about what war does. There is stuff that will break your heart.
“The Ballad of Bill Hubbard”
“The Gunner’s Dream”
“Two Suns in the Sunset”
“Watching TV”
“Home”
Pink Floyd singer-guitarist David Gilmour and his wife, Polly Samson, who wrote lyrics for the band’s later songs, are not pulling any punches about Roger Waters, whose stances on Israel, Ukraine and Russia have alarmed many of the band’s followers in recent years. On social media, Samson called Waters “rotten to your antisemitic core” and “a Putin apologist,” among other things — and Gilmour emphatically cosigned his spouse’s statement, writing: “Every word demonstrably true.”
Find better artists to listen to.
If we could climb the highest steeple
And then look down at all the people
And shoot the ones not wholly good,
As we, like noble shooters, should
Why then there’d be an only worry:
Who’s be left to bury
Us?
-Walt Kelly
I believe the death penalty is immoral because I don’t believe there is such a thing as an act so heinous that it would be moral to kill them after the fact.
There is room in my moral framework for killing in self defense or defense of others, but I leave that to require some kind of immediacy. And I think enemy combatants in a hot war are fair game, too, but that requires a hot war as a precondition, and I don’t think we’re there right now.
Then you will only ever be in a position to defend yourself from Nazis.
I am also opposed to the death penalty, but I understand that there are circumstances where practicality overrides morality. Stopping the spread of Nazis is just such a circumstance.
In germany we say ‘heul leise’ and i think this is beautiful.
Realized I should probably add the post as context In Munich, Vance accuses European politicians of censoring free speech
And this context is FRICKING important.
Classic right wing mindset requiring tolerance of intolerance.
Well we also have plenty of fascists and are US vasals after all.
feddit.org is a German hosted instance that has to abide by the German law. By that law, your comment falls into a grey-zone of legality. As much as I agree with you, they were right in removing your comment, as they are legally obligated to. They could get into trouble if they don’t.
To quote the feddit.org sidebar:
Content that is illegal in Germany, Austria or Switzerland will be deleted and can lead to an immediate ban of the account.
Can you quote an article of German law forbidding calling nazis (or any other violent political group) pieces of shit?
It is a genuine question - I am not familiar with German law.
Not that directly, but saying they have “zero worth” might be against GG Article 1
Human dignity is inviolable
Pretty sure dehumanizing can be prosecuted under this, even if its rather tame. Also there have been some laws over the last few years that criminalize violent speech on the internet and that give people the ability to report comments directly to agencies. These might make it quite dangerous for the instance to keep up these comments.
I assure you, German leftist often say way more intense stuff on a daily basis, but not on publicly hosted servers
Can you quote the actual article?
Can you be less annoying? No one owes you anything here.
You are misrepresenting the facts here. Nobody said that calling Nazis pieces of shit is actionable under German law. That’s not the problem. The post specifically states that “Nazi lives don’t matter”, questioning a person’s right to life is dehumanizing and might very well break German law. I’m not a lawyer, so I’m not gonna quote specific case law but if I were an admin, I’d also would err on the side of caution here.
Can you be less annoying? No one owes you anything here.
Can you go and kindly shag yourself? No one asks you to answer here.
Furthermore, you don’t have a clue how logic works, do you? If someone claims the comment has been removed due to German law, it is on them to prove it.
I guess that’s a no
Well done, perfectly logical analysis of my last comment. Now try to apply the same to the entire thread.
Wrote it down in another comment in case you might actually care you can read it there:
Yes, I have seen it, thank you.
I did. That’s the first article of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law) of Germany
Constitution is not a criminal law so no. But someone else already quoted criminal law which at a very stretch may be applicable here.
Yes, but these are probably also an extend/criminal law implementation of this constitutional law. Also you would still break the law, even if you couldn’t get punished for it. Something you don’t want to host on german servers.
To contextualize my original comment a bit more and explain how these things work over here: you can already get sued for just insulting somebody. I remember a case a few years ago where somebody called a right wing politician a “Hurensohn” (son of a whore) and got his house raided by police. Getting sued (especially by politicians) for insults isn’t unlikely in germany. The platform hosting that content can also get in trouble for it. OP apparently talked about a politician, who could try and sue in Germany. Since OP is probably not from there, the server owners will get in trouble instead. All that to say: this form of moderation is legally necessary in Germany. You can dislike this and I agree with you, but it’s not something that’s going to change. It doesn’t mean that the mods are supporting fascism, as so many are seemingly claiming. Feddit.org is a rather left instance (in Germany we’d say “linksgrün versifft”) and they are definitely not trying to shield nazis, they just try to follow the local law to prevent getting sued
This is true.
The first article of our constitution is like all of our criminal law packed into one sentence. Most of our criminal law is just specifying how violating the dignity of humans gets punished. So while in theory he was not wrong with that this is against our constitution this is not how a judge would argue.
You could copy and paste that chunk of text in to a thing called a “search engine” and if it exists outside of that comment you’ll find out where.
Just a thought.
Have you actually read it? I am yet to see a legal section saying “pretty sure”
Nothing easier than that: Art 130 StGB
Anyone who, in a manner likely to disturb the public peace,
1.
incites hatred against a national, racial, religious or ethnic group, against sections of the population or against an individual because of their membership of a designated group or a section of the population, incites violence or arbitrary measures, or
2.
attacks the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously denigrating or slandering a designated group, parts of the population or an individual because of their membership of a designated group or part of the population,The Post was in A Manner to disturb the public by being a public post. It attacks the human dignity by dehumanising a group based on their world view. Under current German law this is incitement to people.
This line of reasoning was used by certain mods on lemmy.world when the public was posting pro Luigi sentiment.
They cried that dutch law then US law required them to remove this comments and to suppress the discussion on news and politics subs on lemmy.world
The largest pro luigi sub today is hosted on lemmy.world…
This agreement is getting tired. Sure whoever runs the servers can do as they please, but the excuse of law breaking is disingenuous.
Ah germs, I understand. Consistently on the wrong side of history. Can’t even mildly criticise genociders in that shithole.
Well, yeah. We don’t condone murdering murderers, either.
Depends on the murderer. Dexter has great ratings because people do in fact support murder of people who kill and aren’t being held accountable, at least in theory.
At least in fiction. Big difference.
Luigi seems to have a lot of support as well. In reality.
I think the key difference is that no one was bringing Brian Thompson to justice.
The nature of humans is that they seek justice for themselves. Congress and the courts are, in theory, an uneasy compromise to offer people justice in exchange for demanding that they don’t go out and make justice for themselves. Because we’ve seen where that leads, and it sure isn’t good.
You can believe in the rule of law and still think Brian Thompson deserved to die. Because by any legal standard, he committed more homicides than pretty much everyone on death row. And yet, somehow, our system is so twisted up that it is fine. Everything Thompson did was perfectly legal. Just like slavery, segregation, and the holocaust.
I don’t think killing CEOs at random is a route to any good thing. Bringing random violence into the political equation serves one side only, and it is not ours. But it is perfectly consistent to condemn murder and still support Luigi, in reality.
legal […] like the holocaust.
Funnily, German law did not change during the holocaust, and Germany still convicts people for being accessories to murder in concentration camps under the laws of the 1940s.
If Hitler was assassinated before he started the war, millions wouldn’t die.
The same if he had been detained.
Not really. He was in charge of Germany, there was no chance for him being detained. Draw the conclusions yourself.
If Hitler had been assassinated right before the war, it might have been infinitely worse.
The Nazis weren’t predicated solely on Hitler. He actually was meant to be just a speechmaker while the smarter people made all the important decisions, because he was kind of an aggressive moron. Things got out of hand, though, and he was able to take over and to a large extent fuck everything up. A few of the attempts on his life were from other committed Nazis of a pretty high rank. The allies thought about trying to assassinate him, but decided ultimately that it was way better for the war effort if he was in charge.
I don’t think the movement would have petered out without Hitler and constitutional order restored. Not by 1939. They might not have exterminated the Jews quite so completely, but they might have, and they also might have stayed allied with the Soviets and won the war in spades. I think one of the few saving graces about the way it all went down was that Hitler was in charge, fucking everything up.
The parallels to Trump are uncanny.
Not by 1939. They might not have exterminated the Jews quite so completely,
You don’t have a clue.
While the nazis obviously didn’t rely solely on Hitler, in 1939 holocaust plans weren’t even drafted.
Plus, we are not in 1939 quite YET. If Hitler was killed after he came to power, war wouldn’t even start.
The parallels to Trump are uncanny.
Of course sweetie. Keep telling yourself that until it is too late.
I’m not sure if you are being condescending because you think you are right, or for some other reason. I wasn’t even saying whatever you thought I was saying about 1939. You also have some of your history wrong.
The camp system started instantly after Hitler came to power, as did sterilizations and abortions. Things ramped up from there. Systematic mass killing of Jews started in 1941, but it wasn’t something that was off the table until “plans were drafted” to do something that they hadn’t been ramping up towards. The plans that they drafted were systematic expansions of what had already been happening in a less organized fashion for years.
Hitler didn’t invent the idea of starting a war with all of the rest of Europe. He picked it up, along with a lot of other Geopolitik ideas, apparently from Karl Haushofer. That was back in the days when Hitler wasn’t unequivocally in charge or even close to. How things would have played out without Hitler at the helm is totally uncertain of course, but plenty of other people had the ideas that became World War 2, and they appeared in Hitler’s works all of a sudden in 1923 when he picked them up from Haushofer at the same time Hess and Ribbentrop did.
It’s possible that if he was killed in 1933 that we wouldn’t have had the big war, just internal misery everlasting within Germany’s borders or a ways beyond them. Like I say, it’s also possible that the Nazi operation would have played out the same but been far more effective, if a little slower and less stylish without Hitler’s high-octane speeches.
We are clearly in early 1933 right now. Ten metaphorical days away from the Reichstag Fire, a little more than a month from the Enabling Act. Of course, we’re not bound for things to play out in exactly the same fashion, but that’s where we are on the timeline.
Of course sweetie. Keep telling yourself that until it is too late.
Not even sure what to make of this.
Systematic mass killing of Jews started in 1941, but it wasn’t something that was off the table until “plans were drafted” to do something that they hadn’t been ramping up towards
I wasn’t planning to have historical debate here but you are clearly misinforming anyone who reads your comments.
“Final solution” — mass murder — wasn’t planned until 1941 and in 1940 Nazis were still toying with the idea of mass deportations to Madagascar instead.
Just remind me, what is Trump trying to do at the moment?
Not even sure what to make of this.
Go figure.
Holocaust as a mass murder wasn’t planned until 1941
400,000 people were sterilized in 1933. Gas vans were killing mental patients in 1939. The Einsatzgruppen were traveling with the army in 1939, shooting Jews en masse in some cases. “Aktion T4” was put into practice in 1940, also with mental patients. Eugenics scholars had been talking about exterminating those with inferior genes since 1920. The deportation to Madagascar was talked about under the assumption that the harsh conditions and lack of civilization would leave most of the Jews to die “naturally.” Deliberate starvation in the ghettos killed tens of thousands of Jews before a formalized “final solution” was planned for. And so on.
Not sure how you got that my “ramping up” description was misinforming people. That’s what happened. As much fun as this is, I have completed as much of this conversation as I want to have.
400,000 people were sterilized in 1933. (…)
Again, your point is? Mass murder of Jews wasn’t planned until 1941. In 1940 Nazis were planning mass deportations to Madagascar. These are facts, I am not sure what is you are trying to achieve here?
Furthermore, your comments only support my point as the goals escalate: Trump is attempting mass deportations now - like nazis were going to just before Final Solution
If someone was to kill Hitler, neither WW2 nor Final Solution would have happened.
Nazis are shitbags, yes, but like, calm down a bit. Don’t stoop down to their level.
that’s not even remotely close to their level.
It isn’t a race to the bottom.
You’re not going to win moderate people to your side by labeling them Nazis.
It’s a mistake to find the most extreme opinions in a group and use them to label the entire group. Just because outrage and self-righteousness feels good, doesn’t mean it’s actually accomplishing anything.
The kinds of statements, like in the OP, are just a form of public masturbation. You’re just yelling into the void for the pleasure and mental rush.
If your goal is to defeat right-wing nationalists, you need to convince the undecided people and that isn’t happening if you’re just ranting like a crazy person because your brain is addicted to upvotes and outrage.
the fuck are you talking about, labeling groups? the op is talking about one person.
Hello, welcome to Lemmy.
In Lemmy, posts can contain comments which are organized into hierarchical threads.
If you are ever confused and need to understand the context of a conversation you can scroll up and read the thread from the top.
yeah which is why you should do that
Can you point to a historical time when large fascist movements were defeated with a means other than violence? We know what happened in Europe, in america they had to counter them by literally beating them up as they popped up, most developing countries had to have violent uprisings.
I am just confused at when talking has ever actually worked and not just delayed their influence (they have always and currently do spend like 100x the money of their opposition, which is has been shown time and time again, money buying propaganda shoved into peoples faces day after day wins hearts and minds almost every time)
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You don’t prevent a Nazi problem by playing their game of hate. It’s a game they will always win. By saying shit like that, all you’re doing is emboldening the hardliners and giving them ammunition, while reconfirming those doubting their beliefs.
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Sweet mother of an appeal to extremes. How do you go from “don’t use Nazi’s playbook” to “do nothing while Nazis are committing an ethnic cleansing”?
Aren’t they already commiting an ethnic cleansing?
Depending how you look at it, sadly yes. That people in the US are doing nothing about it is both terrifying and disappointing.
Because every time we try to do something about it we have milquetoast nazi sympathizing centrist complaining about “stooping to their level”.
It’s not an extreme. It’s what the nazis did last time they were in power and what neonazis openly admit to planning to do next time they’re in power. Any ounce of repect and human dignity given to them will be used to harm people who have done nothing wrong.
You’re missing the point. This isn’t about treating Nazis with respect, it’s about not playing their game, which only benefits them.
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I give Nazis all the rights they want to give to me. And all the lefts too.
If you follow an ideology of intolerance, you are no longer entitled to tolerance from others. I will not engage in discourse with followers of an ideology that would enslave my family and likely deport, imprison or exterminate those who are of color and/or disabled.
That’s what it comes down to. You can’t have any sort of discussion after that point. The conversation has been reduced to either I stop you or you destroy my life. There’s nothing more to be said.
If I’m not human in your eyes, you’ve already proven your inhumanity to me.
One of the best things that happened in the 20th century was the firm reaffirmation, after the war was over, that Nazi lives do have value.
The allies would have been within every reasonable right to just string up the Nazi leadership like Mussolini, make a new treaty of Versailles, and mime tiny violins any time one of the citizens of Germany raised the alarm that their kids were starving. And, a lot of the people on the ground basically did exactly that. But the word from the top is: They are humans. They have rights.
The ones we think are guilty get lawyers and trials, no matter what we’re pretty sure they did. That’s what humans have to do for each other, in a just world. It doesn’t mean you don’t set things right, but you still give them human value and rights, even the worst, before you put them to death if that’s justice.
The whole roots of the war lay in misery and hate. What are we going to be reaping in 20 years if we just replant it all because it’s “what they deserve?” Let’s put an end to it.
It doesn’t mean we didn’t do terrible things in the war, or kill in self defense. Even kill whole cities in an instant, if you need to. But the killing isn’t the point. It’s just a protection, and it needs to end as soon as you can see a way to end it.
And then, back to human life and value. That is, in fact, what separates us from the Nazis, is that we’re not looking to throw it away.
Thank you for saying this. It needs to be said over and over. It’s the only way forward.
The whole roots of the war lay in misery and hate. What are we going to be reaping in 20 years if we just replant it all because it’s “what they deserve?” Let’s put an end to it.
I really wanted you to be wrong, but you’re not, and that quote is the crux of the matter. I would just add we need to get really aggressive with re-education. I know you mentioned it elsewhere, but we need to be like dogs with t-bones, with it.
Can you give an example for implementing “aggressive reeducation”?
Regular, daily deprogramming with people trained. Aggressive daily therapy at not acting on hateful impulse. Actual critical thinking, critical reading, and logic classes, to start.
What happens if people don’t show up for classes?
Then they are segregated from society and will attend classes like people currently do.
Gulags are a terrible idea.
I’m so glad we gave the Germans a pat on the back instead of being mean to them. Who knows, maybe the new Nazi government highly likely to be elected this week will use a less painful gas to kill minorities.
My grandad who fought in WW2 used to say to me “You don’t speak to Nazis. You shoot Nazis”.
I may be less radical than that but I would gladly see all nazis and nazi apologists on compulsory re-education courses or in prisons.
Edit: I hope the OP don’t mind me using this post in my https://lemmy.world/c/opisafuckingidiot community with the explanation that this time it is a mod who is an idiot: https://lemmy.world/post/25616034
I am in the shoot them camp and got permabanned from reddit because I am vocal about it.
From an anarchist/leftist perspective this is a clear case of PTB. But a milquetoast response to fascism is one of the identifying characteristics of liberalism (unfortunately), so I don’t think anyone will be surprised about this type of censorship on a mostly liberal server tbh.
Luigi committed a crime, rheee!
The issue is that by attacking people you are puahing them farther into extremism.
Isolation from friends, family and other social support networks further intensifies social influence within cults. By severing ties with external influences, cults control members’ social interactions and shape their perceptions of reality. This isolation heightens members’ dependence on the cult for social connection and validation, making it difficult for them to seek help or escape from the group’s control.
Making friends with Nazis won’t make them any less fascist. It just serves to normalize fascism.
It depends on how you approach it, you shouldn’t be friends with someone like that, but they need to undertand why.
They know why. They don’t care. You can’t care about what a person thinks and want to kill them. Nazis want to kill or enslave everyone who isn’t aryan.
You’re fucking insane if you think we should be killing them with kindness. We need to just straight up kill them, because nazism and human life and dignity are mutually exclusive.
