I mean in America but also possibly worldwide with all the bullshit lately
We’ll probably see a massive push of identity politics or some other distraction from the media again, like happened after occupy wall street.
American uniparty propaganda already has people believing Trump is a freedom fighter who’s going to dismantle the deep state or a fascist who will make himself dictator for life. It’s effectiveness is truly amazing.
I hope I’m wrong though.
I have no doubt they’ll try and frame it as a controversial issue and not something that everyone wants.
“The government wants to make it free to cut our dicks off! Think of the kids! We must stop this woke agenda!”But nobody has anything to lose from free healthcare. It’s been proven to work in many first world countries, so what’s the delay?
This isn’t a left vs right issue, its a human vs corruption issue. We are the 99%
The French have healthcare
Probably because guillotines are still recent history. As soon as the poor realize there are more of us than there are of them and DO something about it, we win.
I don’t think so.
For one, the revolutionary sentiment isn’t nearly as widespread as it was in 18th century France. Yes, it’s true that many people are discontent with the current economic and political situation but the difference is that 250 years ago, the only outlet for discontent available to common people was to revolt, whereas in the United States and other Western democracies, a second option exists: the democratic political institutions. What this really means is that the right of suffrage and of elections has really sucked a lot of the will to revolt from the populace; it’s easier to get what you want by participating in the democratic process than by revolting, or at least that’s what a lot of people think.
In order for a revolution to start, you need to hit a critical mass of angry people motivated enough to risk everything to overthrow the system. The presence of democratic institutions like elections and referendums changes the maths and it makes it harder to convince people that they need to revolt in order to get what they want. In turn, it tends to mean that well-established democracies really aren’t prone to violent revolutions from the bottom of the sort that topple totalitarian governments. Rather, the primary threat to democratic states actually comes from the top—that the people in charge will try to exceed their mandate of power and take over the government.
that the people in charge will try to exceed their mandate of power and take over the government.
This is actively happening. They’ve been exceeding their boundaries, and violating the constitution for decades now.
I don’t know what country you’re referring to but you’re probably correct.
I think you underestimate how many people feel lost since we elected the orange asshole again.
Lost, yes. Ready to risk everything trying to overthrow the Government, not so much. There’s a reason we remember 6th January 2021 and not 6th January 2017.
We’ve been given bread and circuses in a way they didn’t have.
If you’re talking about yesterday’s events being the start? I don’t believe so. Very few people in the US have so little to lose and still a lack of collectivism that they would not be willing to give up their life for a chance to improve things for everyone.
HOWEVER, this event may open people’s eyes to look at each other and realize culture wars are a distraction, the wealthy are the ones after our ability to sustain ourselves, not immigrants, trans people, rural people, urban people, or religious people, conservative or liberal etc.
Violence is an option, but it doesn’t have to be this way. We saw it got Anthem to reverse course, but I’m certain the same thing would happen if everyone switched away from Anthem at the same time during this open enrollment period.
If this doesn’t spur the beginning of a mindset towards collective action, we will be left waiting until the next high-profile murder. Again the solution doesn’t have to be violent with guillotines and the whole 9 yards, but organize organize organize into a movement and change can happen when y’all put aside differences and do it together. Modern society going so fast has made everyone perpetually tired and makes it hard to wield their share of power. Still there is immense power in numbers and it is up to us to use it for good. An unbreakable bond between people can’t be defeated no matter what the billionaire class may spend to try to discredit it.
I’m certain the same thing would happen if everyone switched away from Anthem at the same time during this open enrollment period.
Respectfully, how many people even have that option? I have a choice between two plans at one company. My wife has two or three more options through her job, also through the same company. We can’t even get ACA because we have insurance offered through work.
The only way for us to leave our insurance company is to change jobs or just go without insurance (which you don’t get any extra money for to offset the cost).
The system is set up in such a way that we can’t make meaningful collective choices. I’m not condoning murder, but they’ve deliberately left us with few opportunities to vote with our wallets. It’s little wonder someone got creative about messaging.
The system is set up in such a way that we can’t make meaningful collective choices
It’s also set up to make it incredibly difficult to be self-employed. Tying lifesaving medical procedures to corporate servitude ensures that the vast majority of people have no choice but to go work for the wealthy.
Lone wolfs are lone.
Unorganized chaos v a movement with leadership easily targeted.
People with nothing left to lose are not just those the public has normally ostracized. They include very intelligent, very motivated people.
It only takes one person to act.
Revolution often doesn’t involve the moderate or uninformed.
When the power elite have no idea from where or when they might be deposed, that could be a much more powerful tool than an uprising easily suppressed by jack boots and tear gas.
I’ve put to rest any hopes that I’ve ever had about Americans ever staging a revolution for the righteousness of the people. It’s clear as day, as to how many millions of Americans that are out there, that openly endorsed fascism to reign supreme. That, the opposition would have more of an uphill battle on their hands than they thought.
I was hopeful in 2004, but nothing happened. I was hopeful when Occupy Wallstreet was a thing, but nothing happened. I was hopeful in 2020 when retail stores left and right were exploiting their workers and price gouging, but nothing happened. I was hopeful when the Israel-Gaza conflict started, but nothing happened. I was hopeful with January 6th 2021, but nothing happened. I was hopeful a month ago, but nothing happened. There’s many more examples but those were off the top of my head.
I am fucking tired of it and I’m done hoping.
I’m there with you, but I’ll addendum. So many people couldn’t be faffed to show up to vote. I keep seeing so much about “rising up” and staging a revolution. If they can’t be bothered to show up to circle in a bubble on a piece of paper, I’m not going to expect them to do fuck all when shit actually hits the fan.
If you hear David Graeber talk about it, the IMF and the World Bank’s power was shattered after occupy, countries weren’t willing to accept their terms anymore because the word was out that leaders who did that were selling out their own people. Things changed, but there are powerful hegemonic forces at work to stop us from hearing about it. They want us to believe we are powerless.
Just because you didn’t storm the bastille yet doesn’t mean nothing is being done. Most direct action is on the ground and invisible. That’s why it looks like decades pass with nothing happening, then overnight everything changes.
Revolutions are a gamble.
You could end up worse than before.
If you are already a dictatorship, then you have nothing to lose so you might as well.
But if you still live in a democracy, even a very flawed one, its still better to try to vote in new politicians, rather than a violent revolt.
You can overthrow a flawed democracy only to end up with a fascist dictator taking totalitarian control. Not a good gamble.
Only when there’s evidence that elections are no longer legitimate (like not just biased, but totally made up results), then you use violence as a last resort.
You can overthrow a flawed democracy only to end up with a fascist dictator taking totalitarian control.
Or you can vote for the guy that openly stated he’d be a dictator and that has fascist tendencies and is already working on remaking the government apparatus in his image…
That aside, I agree with your point that democracy should be preserved and used as a tool to steer your country in the right direction. It can be difficult though, being just a lone voice in a giant mass of people. Add to that that the American way of democracy is a bit biased towards Republicans with their crazy electoral college system and I can imagine that people like to phantasize about overthrowing it all in a revolution.
So then, the obvious followup question:
Do we live in an actual democracy, or an oligarchy with the trappings of a democracy?
With the largest-ever electoral studies from Princeton and others concluding that “90% of the population has essentially no impact on government” and “Public opinion has near-zero impact on US law”, I believe it is the latter.
Tl;dr: do your civic duty and murder an oligarch
The US is an flawed democracy.
I personally rate it at 5/10 in the democracy scale (ranging from -10 to 10 where -10 is a totalitarian regime and 10 is a flawless democracy)
One of the major flaws is First Past The Post voting system, this results in 2 major parties, one of which is obviously worse than the other. The major parties are heavily influenced by rich people. Primary votes are still legit for most races, but money can buy propaganda that sways votes, but ultimately its still the voters choice. Voters are just easily manipulated, unfortunately. In terms of presidential primaries, those are very very flawed since there are superdelegates. After 2016 Democratic National Convention, the convention rules are changed to remove superdelegates from the first round of voting, making it much less flawed, but still, money can buy propaganda.
That said, AOC ran against a status quo democrat and won the primary and went on winning the election. Other progressives could do it too. In the presidential primary, its harder, but as long as the democrats don’t change the rules again, its possible. In non-presidential primaries, they are governed by state laws, so its even harder for a party to unilaterally change the rules. Currently, all non-presidential primaries are all decided by First Past The Post who ever wins most vote become the party’s nominee. Money can sway minds, but with enough support, the propaganda can be overcome, as AOC did.
The US was way worse in terms of democracy in the early days. I’d rate it at 1/10 democracy in the early days, where only white male landowners could vote. Eventually all white male could vote, then Black men could vote, then women. Americans have more rights today than in the country’s beginning. A revolution could risk all those progress made.
Right now I see a path to fix the issues:
Replace First Past The Post with Ranked Choice Voting
Eliminate the Electoral College, replace with Ranked Choice Popular Vote
Abolish the Senate and give its powers to the House
Make the House use Proportional Representation
Overturn Citizens United decision
Overhaul money spending in politics
Your post ignores all of the flaws pointed out in the Princeton study that I mentioned. If you take more flaws into account I think the score will be far lower than 5/10.
But I am more curious about how your “path to fix the issues” will actually get implemented. I agree with your solutions, but they have no chance of being passed by Democrats or Republicans.
I think you are doing the meme of “How to draw an owl. Step 1: Draw the owl.”
Well, the first two (replacing first-past-the-post and eliminating the Electoral College) can be done on a state-by-state basis. There were ballot initiatives in a few states on the ballot in 2024 regarding instant-runoff voting. All of them failed, including one in Alaska that would have repealed instant-runoff voting and replaced it with first-past-the-post.
The Electoral College can be defeated using the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
Could this be the start of a nouveau French Revolution?
What could be?
You didn’t post any links or context
Bourgeois revolutions are a thing of the past. They already won their property, now they will have to defend it. We either get proletarian revolution or fascism at this stage.
In that we murder a bunch of people, other folks weaponize the mob to murder specific people so as to take their stuff, eventually descending into a situation so bad that we appoint a successful general as a dictator?
Maybe?
There was a genuinely cool French revolution in paris once. Hopefully we can emulate that one without the whole getting slaughtered like dogs in the street part
Are you talking about the Paris Commune?
I don’t know much about it but I know they put back the French republican calendar while they had control over the city, which I think was pretty cool.
Indeed, the Paris commune was the first proletarian revolution and the origin of the red flag.
Napoleon wasn’t “appointed” as dictator by any legitimate government or by the people. He overthrew the Directory and the Constitution of Year III and made himself the dictator.
French politics is always on the brink and the French public are almost always protesting. I’m not sure their revolution ever really stopped.
Given that the French tend to declare a revolution over fairly trivial things, I agree.
🤞
You will know when you hear the wooden clogs.
No. The French people are not desperate, they have too much to lose
