“Party elites” aren’t a class. The petite bourgoeisie and bourgeoisie that exist in Cuba are classes, but the working class exerts power over them with the state. When you try to take the state out of class struggle and pretend it to be a distinct class in and of itself, outside of the realm of production and distribution, you’re making a fundamental error.
Communism isn’t redundant because Cuba still has class, money, and the state. Production and distribution aren’t globally collectivized, Cuba very much has armies, defense, laws on property, etc. that would be phased out over time. However, they are very clearly in a transitional state between capitalism and communism, which is what socialism is to begin with.
Your obsession with defining socialism as a “pure” system is utterly unconvincing, no other mode of production has been pure, so there’s no need to pretend socialism is either.
Gee… Fidel’s little brother is worth a sweet $100 million, eh? Not too shabby for such a “classless” person. I wonder how all the other party elites are doing?
you’re making a fundamental error.
No, tankie… it doesn’t look like I am.
Communism isn’t redundant because Cuba still has class,
Oh, really? You don’t say?
that would be phased out over time.
Lol!
in a transitional state between capitalism and communism,
Is that why they legalised private property in their new constitution?
Your obsession with defining socialism as a “pure” system is utterly unconvincing,
Requiring that socialism meet the most basic requirement of socialism in order to be called socialism is a very simple test, tankie.
The hollowness of your ideology is now mere historical record.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and you have provided zero.
Tabloid media trying to conflate publicly owned assets in Cuba as constituting Fidel and Raul’s net worth is bargain bin red scare nonsense.
Requiring that socialism meet the most basic requirement of socialism in order to be called socialism is a very simple test, tankie.
The most basic requirements of socialism are that the working class is in control of the state, and public ownership is the princiole aspect of the economy. It’s qualitatively different from capitalist economies, where capitalists are in charge of the state and private ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. Pretending a worker-run, publicly owned economy is capitalist all the way until they reach communism is absurd.
Not a sarcastic question, btw… the historical record perfectly shows how your ilk views us working class folk - after all, Marxism-Leninism has always been the ideology of the factory owner.
Socialism isn’t equalitarianism. In Cuba, the working classes do control the means of production and the state. Continuing to pretend I “despise the working class” because I support real, existing worker power and don’t belittle their protracted struggle to protect it isn’t convincing anyone.
The bit where you implied the existence of inequality meant the existence of class. The party is made up of the working classes, they are not classless. They aren’t a distinct class, but instead a part of the working classes. Instituting small amounts of controlled private property in order to help with their tourism industry is not “taking to capitalism like ducks to water as soon as they get the chance,” Cuba has been socialist for a long time and the recent private concessions are due to struggles from the blockade.
I love the working class, that’s why I support the working classes that have taken power around the world and direct the economy to suit the needs of the people, rather than redefine words and imagine an ever-purer and ever-nonexistent version of socialism in my head to compare them to.
existence of inequality meant the existence of class.
Again - which part of this…
The most basic requirements of socialism are that the working class is in control of the state,means of production.
…contains the term “equalitarianism,” tankie?
Do tell, tankie… how does this inequality exist if the working class are in control of the means of production?
Your concept of socialism is anti-socialist.
Why should we treat you any different from all the other anti-socialists?
The party is made up of the working classes,
Oh really? These party elites you simp for are mere members of the working class, eh tankie?
When it comes to modernising feudal power relations for secular industrialisation you Marxist-Leninists have outdone liberal capitalists by every metric except longevity.
Your point on there being some level of inequality in Cuba is basically a point about equalitarianism. The inequality exists because Cuba is a very poor country, and as such there is uneven development and distribution, even if tje working classes are in power. Yes, the PCC is a working class party.
You have no points, you just redefine words and hurl petty insults. It’s painfully boring, especially considering your line of logic is being used right now to justify bombing Venezuela. You despise the working class and the power it builds as it actually exists in real life, while you continue to paint an ever purer vision in your head to beat the global south with like a club. You’re an imperialist first and foremost.
“Party elites” aren’t a class. The petite bourgoeisie and bourgeoisie that exist in Cuba are classes, but the working class exerts power over them with the state. When you try to take the state out of class struggle and pretend it to be a distinct class in and of itself, outside of the realm of production and distribution, you’re making a fundamental error.
Communism isn’t redundant because Cuba still has class, money, and the state. Production and distribution aren’t globally collectivized, Cuba very much has armies, defense, laws on property, etc. that would be phased out over time. However, they are very clearly in a transitional state between capitalism and communism, which is what socialism is to begin with.
Your obsession with defining socialism as a “pure” system is utterly unconvincing, no other mode of production has been pure, so there’s no need to pretend socialism is either.
Gee… Fidel’s little brother is worth a sweet $100 million, eh? Not too shabby for such a “classless” person. I wonder how all the other party elites are doing?
No, tankie… it doesn’t look like I am.
Oh, really? You don’t say?
Lol!
Is that why they legalised private property in their new constitution?
Requiring that socialism meet the most basic requirement of socialism in order to be called socialism is a very simple test, tankie.
The hollowness of your ideology is now mere historical record.
Let me echo you here:
Tabloid media trying to conflate publicly owned assets in Cuba as constituting Fidel and Raul’s net worth is bargain bin red scare nonsense.
The most basic requirements of socialism are that the working class is in control of the state, and public ownership is the princiole aspect of the economy. It’s qualitatively different from capitalist economies, where capitalists are in charge of the state and private ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. Pretending a worker-run, publicly owned economy is capitalist all the way until they reach communism is absurd.
Deeply unserious.
Really? So Cuba’s party elites live like the rest of Cuba’s working class, eh?
FTFY.
No ifs, tankie.
No buts.
No ands.
As unserious as a (supposed) “socialist” that despises the working class?
Stop being a dick.
It does not make your arguments better, and it makes you look like a child.
Does that turn you on, tankie?
Not a sarcastic question, btw… the historical record perfectly shows how your ilk views us working class folk - after all, Marxism-Leninism has always been the ideology of the factory owner.
lol
Yes… lol!
Socialism isn’t equalitarianism. In Cuba, the working classes do control the means of production and the state. Continuing to pretend I “despise the working class” because I support real, existing worker power and don’t belittle their protracted struggle to protect it isn’t convincing anyone.
Which part of this…
…contains the term “equalitarianism,” tankie?
Do tell… why do these (supposedly) “classless” party elites you worship so much take to capitalism like ducks to water as soon as they get the chance?
Again… why do you despise the working class?
The bit where you implied the existence of inequality meant the existence of class. The party is made up of the working classes, they are not classless. They aren’t a distinct class, but instead a part of the working classes. Instituting small amounts of controlled private property in order to help with their tourism industry is not “taking to capitalism like ducks to water as soon as they get the chance,” Cuba has been socialist for a long time and the recent private concessions are due to struggles from the blockade.
I love the working class, that’s why I support the working classes that have taken power around the world and direct the economy to suit the needs of the people, rather than redefine words and imagine an ever-purer and ever-nonexistent version of socialism in my head to compare them to.
Again - which part of this…
…contains the term “equalitarianism,” tankie?
Do tell, tankie… how does this inequality exist if the working class are in control of the means of production?
Your concept of socialism is anti-socialist.
Why should we treat you any different from all the other anti-socialists?
Oh really? These party elites you simp for are mere members of the working class, eh tankie?
When it comes to modernising feudal power relations for secular industrialisation you Marxist-Leninists have outdone liberal capitalists by every metric except longevity.
Your point on there being some level of inequality in Cuba is basically a point about equalitarianism. The inequality exists because Cuba is a very poor country, and as such there is uneven development and distribution, even if tje working classes are in power. Yes, the PCC is a working class party.
You have no points, you just redefine words and hurl petty insults. It’s painfully boring, especially considering your line of logic is being used right now to justify bombing Venezuela. You despise the working class and the power it builds as it actually exists in real life, while you continue to paint an ever purer vision in your head to beat the global south with like a club. You’re an imperialist first and foremost.