• Are_Euclidding_Me [e/em/eir]@hexbear.netEnglish
    359·
    9 days ago

    You’re a sectarian asshole and I really, truly wish you’d stop trying to drive a wedge between hexbear and dbzer0.

    I like quite a few people from dbzer0, broadly speaking I’m glad we’re federated, but I think you, Deceptichum, need to delete your account and stop posting shitty memes whose only purpose is to try to get people to fight.

    You’re a corrosive presence in this space and if I had power here I’d ban you in a heartbeat

  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
    184·
    7 days ago

    Oh hey, the comment I made. I stand by what I said here, in response to one of your recent soyjack memes. Your characterization of Nazis freed from prison in Hungary that started lynching Jews and communists was as follows:

    >Likewise it was not a fascist uprising simply because it was democratic, /anti-authoritarian and wanted to escape from Soviet imperialism. Everything you don’t like isn’t Hitler.

    Except in this case, they were literal Nazis:

    "The special correspondent of the Yugoslav paper, Politika, (Nov. 13, 1956) describing the events of those days, said that the homes of Communists were marked with a white cross and those of Jews with a black cross, to serve as signs for the extermination squads. “There is no longer any room for doubt,” said the Yugoslav reporter, “it is an example of classic Hungarian fascism and of White Terror. The information,” continued this writer, "coming from the provinces tells how in certain places Communists were having their eyes put out, their ears cut off, and that they were being killed in the most terrible ways."

    "But the forces of reaction were rapidly consolidating their power and pushing forward on the top levels, while in the streets the blood of scores of massacred Communists, Jews, and progressives was flowing."

    “Some of the reports reaching Warsaw from Budapest today caused considerable concern. These reports told of massacres of Communists and Jews by what were described as 'Fascist elements’ …” (N.Y. Times, Nov. 1. 1956)

    “The evidence is conclusive that the entry of Soviet troops into Budapest stopped the execution of scores, perhaps thousands of Jews, for by the end of October and early November, anti-Semtic pogroms - hallmark of unbridled fascistic terror - were making their appearance, after an absence of some ten years, within Hungary.”

    "A correspondent of the Israeli newspaper Maariv (Tel Aviv) reported:

    During the uprising a number of former Nazis were released from prison and other former Nazis came to Hungary from Salzburg . . . I met them at the border . . . I saw anti-Semitic posters in Budapest . . . On the walls, street lights, streetcars, you saw inscriptions reading: “Down with Jew Gero!” “Down with Jew Rakosi!” or just simply “down with the Jews!”

    Leading rabbinical circles in New York received a cable early in November from corresponding circles in Vienna that “Jewish blood is being shed by the rebels in Hungary.” Very much later-in February, 1957-the World Jewish Congress reported that “anti-Semitic excesses occurred in more than twenty villages and smaller provincial towns during the October-November revolt.” This occurred, according to this very conservative body, because “fascist and anti-Semitic groups had apparently seized the opportunity, presented by the absence of a central authority, to come to the surface.” Many among the Jewish refugees from Hungary, the report continued, had fled from this anti-Semitic pogrom-like atmosphere (N.Y. Times, Feb. 15, 1957). This confirmed the earlier report made by the British Rabbi, R. Pozner, who, after touring refugee camps, declared that “the majority of Jews who left Hungary did so for fear of the Hungarians and not the Russians.” The Paris Jewish newspaper, Naye Presse, asserted that Jewish refugees in France claimed quite generally that Soviet soldiers had saved their lives."

    The Truth About Hungary by Herbert Aptheker heavily relies on citing western sources like the New York Times. Aptheker backs up his claims heavily. In spite of this, you held that it was simply a “pro-democracy movement” and downplayed the actions of literal Nazis.

    • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
      512·
      7 days ago

      Oh hey, its the clown who thinks students are all Nazis.

      Go defend some murder and genocide elsewhere redfash.

      • BanMeFromPosting [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        173·
        7 days ago

        Wow what an effective and well-thought out rebuttal. What a normal reaction to seeing text with sources that argues against what one believes. This is definitely not the product of the mind of a heavily propagandised individual.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        153·
        7 days ago

        Oh hey, it’s the cheap retort that puts words in my mouth. These students let Nazis out of prison and started a fascist bloodbath, does that sound particularly pro-democracy to you or do you agree that letting Nazis out of prison and lynching Jewish people and communists is in fact fascist? The students weren’t Nazis, no, but the Nazis they let out were and the violence that ensued with student participation was certainly fascist in character.

        Are you denying that this happened outright, or do you just think it doesn’t matter?

        My point is that, for you, it’s more important to brush the real character of events under the rug as long as it lets you get a cheap shot in. You post constantly in a way that deliberately shit-stirs, and in the face of hard evidence against your claims, you retreat to insults and libel. Truth is secondary to you treating political activism like a team sport, and you use any narrative you can as a club against those not on your team regardless of the truth of the narrative.

        I’m more than willing to recognize the advances and achievements of groups I disagree with theoretically, such as the Naxalites, Zapatistas, CNT-FAI, and more. I can also recognize errors committed by those I ideologically am more aligned with, such as China’s lacking queer rights, the fact that the USSR originally participated in the establishment of Israel, or China backing Cambodia under Pol Pot against Vietnam. Are you capable of doing the same?

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            123·
            7 days ago

            Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment, but I do think it worth directly responding to cowardly callouts with additional context. They can check for themselves that I do upvote some of what they say and post, because some of it is correct, but then they’ll do something like this and destroy their own legitimacy. It stokes more slapfighting than anything else, and I’m starting to think that that’s the point. This kind of wrecker behavior needs to be called out by users if mods and admins won’t take action.

            (Also, not sure if OP’s pronouns are listed, so I’d use a more gender-neutral term if I were you.)

            • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
              52·
              7 days ago

              You’ve got no legitimacy in my eyes. You constantly defend genocide and other vile acts.

              Like I’ve said before, I put you on the same level as Nazis because you are red fash. It’s not wrecker, I love non-ML communists.

              It’s the defending killing children, it’s the defending Russia invading Ukraine, it’s the pretending there’s no genocides, etc.

              Just for once, can you admit Russia is the imperialist invader who started the conflict and is solely responsible for what’s going on in Ukraine? One act of fucking humanity, without trying to spin this into “well you see the cia…”?

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                32·
                7 days ago

                I never once defended genocide. I deny the existence of things like white genocide in South Africa, or the idea that the naturally caused famine in the 1930s in the USSR was intentionally inflicted by the soviets and this a genocide, sure, but that doesn’t make me a “defender of genocide.”

                If you actually viewed me the same way you view Nazis, you’d call me a “pro-democracy protestor,” as we can see by you deliberately minimizing fascist pograms right in this very thread, committed by literal Hungarian Nazis. No, I’m a communist, with views in line with the vast majority of mainstream communist parties around the world. Call communists red fash all you want, but your insults hold no water when you refuse to acknowledge that there were Nazis in Hungary deliberately enabled by the “pro-democracy protestors” that lynched thousands of Jews and communists.

                Even in this very thread, you can’t help yourself but pull a whataboutism on me, instead of acknowledging your mistakes and apoligizing for minimizing the Holocaust, you try to flip it around and give a purity test to me. I’ve already explained the Russo-Ukrainian war to you, and I’ll do it again:

                The west installed a far-right Banderite government in Kiev, following the Banderites committing the Maidan Massacre. As a consequence, Donetsk and Luhansk seceded, in addition to the systemic repression of the Russian language instated by the new government in Kiev.

                The west treated Ukraine like it does Israel, as a far-right, millitarized state to secure the west’s interests. After a decade of civil war, with Kiev murdering 13,000+ civilians and 2 failed Minsk Agreements meant to stop the civil war, Kiev ammassed a large amount of troops, preparing to invade the Donbass region and end the civil war on their terms. Donetsk and Luhansk reached out to Russia, Russia finally recognized the DPR and LPR, and went into Eastern Ukraine in order to annex the 4 oblasts, which voted to join the Russian Federation. The entire war was avoidable. It wasn’t a random decision, nor is the Russian Federation trying to conquer all of Europe or even all of Ukraine.

                This is the standard communist take on the war, repeated by the various communist orgs, because pretending Russia just randomly decided to invade Ukraine and start a campaign of conquest is just Marvel logic.

                See, I can at least be honest, and don’t have to resort to whataboutism to avoid taking responsibility for defending pograms against Jews and communists. Stop acting like a wrecker. I do not care if I have any legitimacy in your eyes, because when you’re this obstinate in the face of hard evidence you just ignore it and deflect. You ruin your own legitimacy by doing so.

                • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
                  52·
                  7 days ago

                  You deny and excuse genocide all the time, ex. Uighur/Tibet. Yeah yeah Zenz or they were feudal so it’s okay. I’ve heard the propaganda a million times over the decades.

                  Today it is Putin who invaded Russia, it is Putin who is stealing Ukrainian children, it is Putin killing the working class people in Ukraine, it is Putin who denies the existence of Ukrainian people’s cultural identity. Putin is the sole aggressor, end of story.

                  That is imperialism and genocide, yet you would rather blame the west. You are so ideologically driven to support your team, that you make these vile takes.

                  Please just block me and stop commenting on my posts. Because I will never block you and allow your hate to go unnoticed. I will only shit on you at every chance I am given.

          • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
            43·
            7 days ago

            Finally a smart tankie.

            Stop coming into anarchist spaces with your bad red fash takes.

            I’m never going to read your walls of propaganda garbage that promotes killing students.

            • Agosagror@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              51·
              7 days ago

              Excuse me? A tankie? Sadly I’m not delusional, I disagree with Cowbee on a whole lot of stuff, between you and me, you are also wasting your time because cowbee is deep down the ideological shitter.

              As for my own positions, I wasn’t aware they mattered to the point I was making, but to clarify then for you, I’m an egoist, which is the philosophy that stirner put forward, we did have a Lemmy community but it’s quite hard to get the tribe off reddit, so I haven’t been able to maintain it.

              Egoism, to give you some context is a foundational idea within anarchism, and for those of us who care about detail, it’s the defining difference between us and the ancaps.

              • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
                42·
                7 days ago

                I’m fully aware of Stirner, and frequently post about him on !philosophymemes@quokk.au

                Well good to hear you’re not a genocide excusing imperialist loving piece of shit like CB! I don’t engage with them in good faith, because they do not act in good faith.

  • Agosagror@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    123·
    7 days ago

    I don’t actually enjoy watching people get really pressed over political stuff. Like these memes aren’t provoking discussion, they aren’t funny, and they just serve to upset people. You might not like tankies, I don’t much agree with alot of their beliefs, but upsetting people doesn’t achieve anything at all. Frankly I’d prefer it if the hexbear actually enjoyed using this platform, instead of spending their time fighting with dbzer0 over hot-air.

    I personally don’t like spending my time arguing this stuff online either, and I can’t imagine hexbear does either. I can’t imagine the mods enjoy moderating effectively a huge bust up either.

    I suspect I speak for all people who have lives that extend beyond internet politics.

    • FranklyIGiveADarn@lemmy.mlEnglish
      21·
      7 days ago

      I can’t imagine hexbear does either.

      You can’t imagine hexbear likes arguing online? That’s all they do.

  • Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.netEnglish
    61·
    7 days ago

    They are so bad at it. They cannot comprehend anything that isn’t hierarchy. It’s truly sad. This is hilariously accurate dealing with .ml

    • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      46·
      9 days ago

      Says the (suposedly) “AES” country still awaiting socialism with baited breath for… how many decades now?

      • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        173·
        8 days ago

        You really cannot be taking swings at Cuba, there is simply no reasonable way to look at this tiny country under total siege by the most powerful empire of all time, see how much better their people live than any other nation at the same level of income, and declare that it’s a bad thing. Even a cursory investigation shows how much power the people have to change policy, it’s probably the most democratic country in the world, maybe ever. Here’s a short primer

        Democracy in Cuba

        I mean, just read that section on mass organizations and tell me that isn’t exactly what you profess to want. And this is from 2015, way before the 2022 Family Code referendum which made marriage equality a constitutional right (among various other highly progressive things) and was probably the most democratically-shaped document of all time, having been discussed in 133,000 public meetings across the nation, with 783,000 proposals for changes made by literally just regular people, in a process that took three and a half years and ended on the 25th revision, which was then adopted in a referendum by 87% of voters.

        Meanwhile, at the moment, this is you

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        122·
        7 days ago

        Cuba is already socialist, not sure what you’re trying to get at. Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy and the working classes run the state.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            101·
            7 days ago

            Public ownership is the principle aspect of their economy and the working classes run the state.

            Already did, unless you somehow think private ownership is principle and capitalists run the state, in which case extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, since you were the one that made the claim that Cuba wasn’t socialist originally.

            • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              44·
              7 days ago

              Already did,

              Excuse me, tankie?

              Are you trying to claim there is no state in Cuba?

              Again… extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                101·
                7 days ago

                No? Cuba has a state, it’s socialist, not yet at communism. Communism, the stateless, classless, moneyless society, where production and distribution is fully collectivized and run to fulfill everyone’s needs, is necessarily a post-socialist, global society. Socialism is the transitional state between capitalism and communism, and can happen at a national level.

                Where capitalism is characterized by private ownership being principle and capitalists in charge of the state, socialism is characterized by public ownership as principle and the working classes in charge of the state.

                Again, if you don’t believe Cuba fits the characterization of socialism as was your original claim, you need to back that up. They are recognized both by liberals and socialists of all stripes as socialist.

                • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                  43·
                  7 days ago

                  Cuba has a state,

                  So you have zero evidence to back up your claim?

                  you need to back that up.

                  I have to back up the fact that you have no evidence to back your ridiculous claim?

                  Only a rabid anti-socialist claims that a state controlling the means of production qualifies as “socialism.”

                  No ifs.

                  No ands.

                  No buts.

  • Loco_Mex@sh.itjust.works
    75·
    7 days ago

    Tankies will spam a wall of text defending killing children, and act like its okay because they tell themselves they were CIA spies.

  • texture@lemmy.world
    43·
    7 days ago

    this is a very, very silly meme.

    you know theres this thing called ancom, right? and before you say “what about ancap?” - that isnt a real ideology at all.

    • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
      43·
      7 days ago

      You know there’s no AnMarx, right?

      Communism is great, Marxism and its derivatives are not.

        • Deceptichum@quokk.auOPEnglish
          61·
          7 days ago

          There’s a lot of Marx that is good.

          I’m not a fan of circlejerking walls of text back and forth with other leftists, so I’ll make this concise.

          The bad is the statism, authority, and hierarchy; All 3 are intrinsically linked but authority is the core factor enabling it. Authority does not abolish itself and a benevolent sultan does not live forever.

            • cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              2·
              6 days ago

              I think I blocked them after proposing that I could instead agree to disagree and winner makes the other a sandwich or something when we finally swing a revolution.

              They preferred to be blocked than even that level of decency. Online tankies can’t really do left unity.