why one would deliberately praise any authoritarian system this hard.

To quote Bertrand Russell: “Much that passes as idealism is disguised hatred or disguised love of power.”

To put it simply, a lot of tankies crave power but just don’t want to admit. They are simply faux concerning for their own ulterior motive. I saw a meme from one of the .ml instances stating that communism simply “wants to improve” society. But I was like: didn’t you guys suppress free elections and speech and persecuted anyone who simply disagrees at the slightest?

It’s not uncommon for many authoritarian communists to eventually become fascists, especially after the end of the Cold War. The ex-leader of Red Army faction became neo-fascist in 2000s. A local politician in my country ran on xenophobic platform, but was a member of a Marxist-Leninist party in the 1970s. All that said, it means these people simply run on whatever ideologies, so long as they can attain power for power’s sake.

Edit: grammar

I just want to point out that there was a time a little over a century ago when anarchists were Public Enemy #1, and there was a huge propaganda campaign to make anarchists look like murderous uncultured savages. Vestiges of this portrayal still remain in the cultures of core capitalist nations.

Of course, this couldn’t be further from the truth. That shows you how powerful the propaganda is and how important it is to analyze the power dynamics you find yourself in the middle of and correct your worldview around who’s been deceiving you and how.

A valuable heuristic is to look at specific policies (especially foreign policy) in the present day, and note the times when your stance is on the same side as the neoliberal establishment.

I empathize with some of the thinking, but I don’t necessarily agree with it. To keep it simple, imagine how many different world powers are working to sabotage openly Socialist and Communist governments. What kinds of tools and resources might these world powers have at their disposal? I can’t imagine being part of a disfavored leftist government and not becoming haggard and paranoid beyond reason.

Tribalism

They opposed one tribe so they joined another

it’s easier to believe in a fantasy than deal with the complicated reality

How do people actually fall into the “Tankie” mindset?

The MLs answering in good faith despite the question being framed in bad faith have exceptional grace.

a post about a guy saying “99% of westerners are 100000000000% sure they know what happened in ‘Tiny Man Square’ […] the reasons for this are complex and involve propaganda […]”

Oh hey I know that guy. If anyone who wants to know more about propaganda & media literacy, please see also: previously.

Well for sure one of the reason is that even in non marxist communities they show up and write comments in a style that many people resonate with. I mean using citations, good grammar, appealing to logic, (seemingly) good argumentations etc.

This makes them look reasonable and even if you do not read all their sources, you might remember their comments and talking points in a pretty positive light.

I dont want to say this style of arguing is bad, but I think it gets valued higher than arguments based on intuition and emotion with a less “scientific” style, because that is what many people are taught when growing up, going to school etc.

Also I would like to say, in some cases this “showing up” is done in a way that feels invasive to (parts of) communties. Like an online version of Jehovas Witnesses.

Tankie brigade incoming in 3… 2… 1…

They can’t see that any government is going to create corruption so they picked the government they have the least experience with to side with. Of course at the heart of the tankies is a huge amount of fud being generated by russia and the ccp.

For the same reason people fall into fascism. Capitalism is putting the screws to people. Rent is too high, food is too expensive, people are on a treadmill, and dissatisfaction hangs in the air like miasma. People are mad, and they don’t know at what. They sense something is rotten, they dont have the words. Fascism co-opts leftist talking points, but pulls a bait and switch with the Jews and migrants and whoever.

Tankies also start from this choking miasma, you look at Tankie propaganda, its compelling. The US commited genocide and war crimes, and is more racist than you know. Capitalists are terrible, yadda yadda you know it. Tankie propaganda also frames politics as a team sport. When you look at the US (or you can look at it as the “Nato Empire,” which can be an interesting way to think about it), as the ultimate evil, can be easy to see anyone opposing them as good or worth supporting.

Some people just have a Right Wing mindset. They’re drawn to concepts like loyalty & obedience to authority and gravitate to political doctrines that stress those values. If Communism makes economic sense to you but you’re politically uncomfortable with shallow/non-existent hierarchies or don’t feel that everyday people can be trusted with political power you gravitate towards being a ML. If you’re willing to force those views on others by threat of state violence you’re now a Tankie.

same way people fall into conservative mindset, propaganda. you hear a little snippet of here and there, and ragebaiting or drama, add in a little racism and authotarianism, which both extreme loves. you fall on either opposites of the spectrum politically. they also dont bother to research on the actual material of being “hard left”

There is no one answer. Dr. Bob Altemeyer‘s book “The Authoritarians” sheds some light on the psychology.

Regardless of what you think about vanguardism as a means to leftist ends, they also seem to miss the logical point that vanguardism and the state are meant to wither away. It is a theoretical rightist means to a leftist ends, it is not itself leftist.

But again, if you read The Authoritarians you find that logic and reason do not matter to them. Trying to reason with an authoritarian is pointless.

Imo this has been a good thread with opportunities for large and well thought out posts from marxists who are being responded to with well thought out positions, and responding in kind. There’s a lot of the classic dross, but I like seeing people’s posts appear to be getting up and downvoted based on content.

Not the usual entertaining brigading, but a good read nonetheless.

Propaganda and self interest. Pick whatever story is being told that you feel like picking and that’s it.