She finds the whole idea absurd. To Prof Marci Shore, the notion that the Guardian, or anyone else, should want to interview her about the future of the US is ridiculous. She’s an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe and describes herself as a “Slavicist”, yet here she is, suddenly besieged by international journalists keen to ask about the country in which she insists she has no expertise: her own. “It’s kind of baffling,” she says.
In fact, the explanation is simple enough. Last month, Shore, together with her husband and fellow scholar of European history, Timothy Snyder, and the academic Jason Stanley, made news around the world when they announced that they were moving from Yale University in the US to the University of Toronto in Canada. It was not the move itself so much as their motive that garnered attention. As the headline of a short video op-ed the trio made for the New York Times put it, “We Study Fascism, and We’re Leaving the US”.
Starkly, Shore invoked the ultimate warning from history. “The lesson of 1933 is: you get out sooner rather than later.” She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake. “My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’ I thought, my God, we’re like people on the Titanic saying, ‘Our ship can’t sink. We’ve got the best ship. We’ve got the strongest ship. We’ve got the biggest ship.’ And what you know as a historian is that there is no such thing as a ship that can’t sink.”
Must be nice to be financially stable enough to run away.
Most people who run from their country are all but financially stable.
An academic who’s job is is to know these things is spending the money to do it. That’s the take away here. They’re the Canary in the Coal Mine.
yeah, you got the same vibe from the political professors that Jon Stewart had on his podcast last week. Just depressed and resigned.
I don’t know your story or your financial situation.
It is a sad reality that in the US there are literally millions who probably can’t leave even if it was life or death. But i feel like your comment directs your anger and pain towards those who are in at the very least a similar boat to you. Considering that she is an academic, I doubt she is rich, probably middle class at best. The billionaires stole from you, she is probably a victim of this system just like you.
She is lucky to be able to leave, but realistically she is probably just putting a much bigger weight on this issue than most and I would guess that she sees this as a life or death situation. I think that in a life or death situation, most people can afford to leave to Canada, this isn’t that crazy nor does it cost a fortune. It is true that not all people can, but I’m pretty sure that by far most can.
This.
There are very many shades of “I can’t leave”.
Depending on how urgently you want to leave, some of these reasons are “can’t leave” or turn into “I’ll leave anyway”.
There’s also another category, “I can leave, but I don’t want to leave behind people important to me that would be at significantly more risk than I am.” I’ve got the work experience to head off to any of several fairly comfortable and stable countries on a skilled work visa, and hope that, if push comes to shove, none of my debts I currently have in the US would become obstacles to my permanently settling there. I can more or less fluently speak Spanish and Portuguese, and I can get by fine in French. Within a couple more years, I’ll have a degree from a European university completed, and I continue to study other languages, with varying degrees of success.
I’m still hanging around, waiting for my sister-in-law to finish up her degree in another two years so that the three of us could all get out at once, as, despite being a naturalized citizen for more than 20 years, I wouldn’t put it past ICE and the current administration to target her just for having darker skin and a slight accent to her English. I’d rather be here where I can watch out for her and raise hell ASAP if something were to happen, than be posted up in a new flat in France or something, and suddenly realize I can’t get in contact with her at all.
There’s also the simple fact that, for those who don’t have the means to legally obtain a visa, I’m unaware of any nation that has started accepting asylum cases from the US on the grounds of the current administration’s actions and policies. Yeah, I could walk to the border with Canada, or overstay on a tourist trip in Europe, but then you face the very real possibility of being caught and sent back, straight into the hands of the very people you are trying to escape, clearly marking yourself out as a dissident of some form. This is leaving aside all the issues you would face as an undocumented immigrant in a foreign nation. I sure don’t have the funds to just show up in Ireland or Portugal and be able to get myself somewhere to stay indefinitely, clothe and feed myself, even assuming I find work within the first few months. I don’t know anyone there that could help me land on my feet.
Getting out, and more importantly, being able to assure you can stay out, is not as simple a task as people who haven’t seriously looked into it might think.
The issue here is that if you stay for someone else, someone else will stay for you.
My family agreed that if something were to happen in our country (be it a war or something political like in the US right now), anyone who can will make it out as fast as possible and prepares the path for the others. Because it’s much easier toget a visum if you already have family there and a place to live.
And yes, you are right, nobody wants Americans in their country, but that’s just why it would be helpful to have someone prepare the way.
I could never leave until every other person I know that wanted to get out makes it out. I couldn’t live with myself knowing I was strong enough to help people that got stuck dealing with whatever bull shit scenario is coming down the line. I truly hope that people that know they can’t handle it do make it out safe because it is surely going to get crazier than any other time in recent history … at least that people in the west have had to deal with.
People are going to need their cars, houses and anything else they can keep alive up and running.
Just be prepared to not rat anyone out !
All the ways to escape that didn’t require lots of money are all long gone
I think about this a lot. My mother’s side immigrated from Europe to the US five generations ago.
They were just teenagers who got on a boat. I don’t know what that cost, but they only had to sign in at ellis island. People back then didn’t even have to use their real name if they didnt want to, there was no court, or lawyers or anything. You just signed in at the door.
Today, is nothing like that.
How did you get financially trapped?
People in the rest of the western world and also mostly elsewhere in the entire world can actually travel.
What do you have to lose if you can’t walk away from where you are? You already lost your freedom and can no longer go anywhere else, because finances? In the richest country in the world?
If I ever find myself in that kind of serfdom without a dime in my pocket, I will put on my shoes and start walking.
It may shock you know that even in the richest country in the world there are homeless people. There are people who live paycheck to paycheck. There are many people who a single unexpected expense would ruin.
Well, no, because all those categories don’t count as people. Obviously.
This is such a boomer answer
Most people are just born into it
…Okay Denmark.
I know of people in Denmark who walked by foot from Syria during the last refugee exodus. They came to Denmark from Norway, because they crossed the border in the arctic between Russia to Norway.
Try to plot that route into your map and then go on complaining about strolling through a few states in USA.
I could walk to Canada, but would they let me in? No passport? No degree? As far as I know, Canada isn’t taking US refugees just yet.
You know national borders exist, right?
Sure, but what about them?
In most cases they’re just lines on a map that don’t actually exist physically in the real world.
Tell that the the sovereign nations you’d be illegally entering
“What are walls, just some man made obstacles, I live in your house now”
That’s what refugees do. And they’re allowed to. Persecution as it is happening in America right now is an international crime. If you’re the victim of persecution you can get eefug status.
Uh, why do you think those Syrians had to walk all the way to the Arctic to get to Europe when they were coming from Syria?
They wanted to admire the scenery of the bogs and pines?
Why didn’t they just take the direct route, because “they’re just lines on a map”?
Why did they more than double the over 4000km long journey to over 8000 km?
Oh, right, because of border control. They had to travel more than 4000 kilometres more to use less guarded crossings.
And good fucking luck crossing any Russo-European borders currently.
Yes, it’s true that borders are vast and not all controlled as easily. But nations sure as fuck try to.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland–Russia_border
That alone added a few thousand km for them, as they went all the way to Norway to cross, because we Finns actually guard the border pretty intensely due to that fucker Vanja disrespecting it so.
Of course that’s the reason. I never claimed otherwise.
So we do agree that people with no money are capable of walking 4000 kilometers. Yet, it is somehow impossible for people in America to walk 500 kilometers, because “America is just too big” and “being financially trapped”.
Their journey was more than 8000 kilometers, not 4000.
And why is that, again? Why did they not take the 4000km shorter route? Are you genuinely going to make me copypaste my reply again?
You’re just too naive about what border control is.
Lol. You’re getting replies from people so complacent with their lifestyles that they can’t fathom the effort of just walking away from everything and starting up elsewhere. Literally millions of people have walked across continents in the last decade to live in places with better opportunities, but these people’ll find any excuse to say that that’s not possible for whatever reason, but really just because it’s a type of change they are unwilling (not unable) to make and they want to make themselves feel better by saying/believing all that isn’t a real option for them.
I’d do it, I’ve no qualms walking, it would take a couple weeks, but I don’t fucking care about that push come to shove, it’s the only plan I have, go North, doing exactly what you mention,
I don’t because Im very certain Canada would not let me live there. No money, no post education, no real skills outside of … manufacturing and taking care of my disabled kid. I don’t have a pasport. Did the folks who left Syria and walked to Denmark, as it was stated, did they have passports? Were they all on the skilled worker list? I’m pretty certain they were classed as refugees, Americas are not classed as refugees. We’d be turned away.
I can’t even move town and I’d like to. I can’t move to a new state and I would if I could. How tf would I show up at the Canadian border today with just a backpack like, heyyyy Get real.
Most of the people entering European countries and seeking refugee status don’t come from conflict zones, just poor areas. Like Pakistanis, Iraqis, Ghanans, Malians, Indians, Nigerians, etc. They just show up, cross illegally avoiding border guards, and either live as illegal immigrants until caught or immediately request refugee status upon reaching their country of choice, such as Germany or Sweden (and upon denial most just stay anyways). This is an option millions have taken. Same with all the Central and South Americans crossing the US border (and Chinese, Caribbeans, etc. that cross that border despite not having geographic proximity).
But this option isn’t the only option. Loads of legal immigrants just sell all they have and gamble on some different country. Some request a student visa someplace (say Canada or Australia) to get their foot in the door, then take advantage of being in the country to seek a job. Some put all their money into creating a small business to seek a visa via that route (many of the poor Chinese you see in European countries try that approach). Fact of the matter is, anyone with a paid roof over their head in the US is among the wealthiest people of the world in terms of income, so hearing them complain is sorta rich. Say you live with your spouse and each make 15k USD per annum but have no property, saving, or investments. First off, you’d be around the halfway mark for the US anyways, but on the world stage you’d also be the top 15%. Do you have an iPhone, a car, a television and enough food security to be overweight? Congratulations, the large, large majority of the world does not have those. Basically, people living in relative (worldwide) security/comfort complaining about the hardships of leaving their safety if they wanted to change their lives is something most of the rest of the world would scoff at (or more). Despite not living in relative privilege for US standards, the majority of the US does in fact live comfortable lives from an international standpoint.
Well, you’re doing a great job at making it sound simple, and anyone who thinks they can’t move, feel stupid.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refugees/protection.html
Yes, I got an unexpected amount of emotional replies. The whole thread is very interesting that way.
It seems like lots of people are extremely complacent.
I doubt those people would be doing all that walking if they had any better option. It’s easy to leave when there’s nothing to leave
You can still walk away, it’ll be more difficult and take longer, but you can do it.
Tell that to the natives.