Tommy Siegel | Bluesky

Transcript

A Helpful Guide To Star Wars vs Star Trek

Star Wars

[Image of Han Solo in Tommy’s style]

  • Don’t start with the ‘first’ movie, let me tell you where to start
  • Looks like ruined farm equipment in space
  • In summary: the past was horrible
  • JJ Abrams ruined it

Star Trek

[Image of Jean Luc Picard in Tommy’s style]

  • Don’t start with the first season, let me tell you where to start
  • Looks like a cruise ship in space
  • In summary: the future is incredible
  • JJ Abrams ruined it
  • OnyxRex@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    41·
    20 hours ago

    Agree to disagree. I don’t begrudge VIII as a movie on it’s own. In the theater I had an okay time and unlike the toxic fans I at least grew to appreciate things like Rose, but you can’t consider VIII in a vacuum because it was never meant to be consumed that way. It’s the center piece in a trilogy.

    I would argue that the fact that these interpretations can be rendered from the movie alone, means that we aren’t dealing with a true Abrams style mystery box, and that even if we were, the general speculation about them doesn’t leave us scratching our heads wondering about a narrative direction for these characters.

    It’s not a polar bear on a tropical island. In the context of the Star Wars universe most of Abram’s choices have implications.

    Those Implications where ignored by Johnson. It’s misguided to blame Abrams for trying to leave questions that mirror the original film. If VIII had built on any of it, at all, we likely wouldn’t be having this discussion. We would be talking about how VIII took the threads of familiar from the previous movie and actually made it good.

    It’s not on Abrams for Johnson’s narrative left turn. At release The Force Awakens was incredibly well received. It wasn’t until after VIII dropped that people really started to tear into Abrams for not keeping narrative control, and deflecting the blame from Johnson onto Abrams.

    I find that outrageous.

    Any collaborative story teller worth their salt can draw the through lines for some of these characters and tropes. It’s not on Abrams for choosing to leave the story about space wizards open ended on what is the opening note of a familiar trilogy. The worst thing you could say about the Force Awakens is that it plays too safe. Which, for an opening movie isn’t a problem unless the rest of the trilogy sucks.

    I don’t think it would have been perfect if Abrams held the wheel for all three films. It’s the nature of fandom to nitpick and complain, but it at least would have been consistent. This trilogy is a narrative mess and it got that way because of Johnson having no skill as a collaborative story teller and likely little love for Star Wars.

    Johnson did to Star Wars what Abrams did to Star Trek.

    • Ech@lemmy.ca
      21·
      13 hours ago

      I would argue that the fact that these interpretations can be rendered from the movie alone

      It’s not, though. That’s my point. Barring Finn being force sensitive, nothing you mention is obvious or supported by anything except your own expectations.

      If VIII had built on any of it, at all, we likely wouldn’t be having this discussion. We would be talking about how VIII took the threads of familiar from the previous movie and actually made it good.

      Or if Abrams had the courage to follow through, we would have something that wraps up VII and VIII in something that wasn’t such a cluster fuck. Or maybe it would have all been even worse either way. We won’t ever know. Speculating “If it was better, I would have liked it” isn’t proof of anything.

      Any collaborative story teller worth their salt can draw the through lines for some of these characters and tropes. It’s not on Abrams for choosing to leave the story about space wizards open ended on what is the opening note of a familiar trilogy.

      We can’t blame Rian for “ignoring” plot hooks that weren’t there. What vague questions were asked, he expanded on. For everything else, people were left to create their own expectations like yours that didn’t line up with what he chose to do. There is no outcome that would have left any number of people satisfied that wasn’t even more of a retread.

      This trilogy is a narrative mess and it got that way because of Johnson having no skill as a collaborative story teller and likely little love for Star Wars.

      What an incredibly self-centered statement. To question and even deny someone’s care for something just because it’s not the way you want them to is just callous and cruel. Nobody is obligated to care the same way you do, and Rian obviously cares for the franchise and has said as much, even saying he’d come back for more despite the extreme reaction he’s gotten so far. Nobody puts up with shit like that for something they don’t care about deeply and that should be welcomed and encouraged. Accusations like yours won’t keep a fandom or franchise healthy - it just pushes everyone reasonable away and leaves the bitter, angry leftovers that nobody wants to touch.

      • OnyxRex@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        1·
        2 hours ago

        What an incredibly self-centered statement. To question and even deny someone’s care for something just because it’s not the way you want them to is just callous and cruel. Nobody is obligated to care the same way you do, and Rian obviously cares for the franchise and has said as much, even saying he’d come back for more despite the extreme reaction he’s gotten so far. Nobody puts up with shit like that for something they don’t care about deeply and that should be welcomed and encouraged. Accusations like yours won’t keep a fandom or franchise healthy - it just pushes everyone reasonable away and leaves the bitter, angry leftovers that nobody wants to touch.

        I really don’t see it. I’ll reflect on it.

        Rian made a fun movie. He did not make a good middle trilogy movie. When taken as the center piece that it is, his choices mirror Abram’s choices with Star Trek. That is, similar and familiar but lacking a deeper understanding of the property. The Star Trek movies are also mostly good. Understanding the deep nuance isn’t needed to make a good movie in a franchise, but it does help inform structure. I flat out refuse to blame Abrams for Rian’s movie. I’ve said way more on this than is needed and obviously we’re not going to agree beyond the fact that the squeals are bad. And that’s fine. I’m not an angry and bitter fan. I’m just profoundly disappointed. like many were.

        but I am getting older and I understand that the way I want things to be isn’t how they are. I just won’t be silent about it in the spaces where we’re supposed to have discussion.

        random point of fact, I checked out these movies Rotten Tomatoes scores last night and it’s interesting how well regarded they are. So either, there’s corporate thumbs on the voting scales or the general public don’t care as much about these complaints. Either way. My desire to be thorough in my thoughts may have painted me as one of those obsessive fans that rages at people online. That isn’t me. Passionate, yes, but not so much so that I will lash out at people for having different opinions. - maybe my blood sugar is just better balanced atm.