So, one party is actually killing people in the streets but ‘both sides are the same?’
If I were the GOP that’s exactly the message I’d be pushing.
These people would “Bothsides” WW2. They’re not much more than useful idiots for Nazis.
You do realize that the powers of the president have been growing for some time now? That the militarization of the police took several decades? That the US has been involved in forever wars under both parties? That the working class has been on the decline for 50 years?
Just ask yourself: why would Biden increase the ICE budget after the first Trump presidency. Democrats told us to vote for them but they never addressed the precursors to fascism. There is a massive overlap between Establishment Dems and MAGA, the Dems are just more polite about serving their billionaire donors.
You are mostly correct. And that’s the crucial bit. Because basically you, like OP, are saying “Dems are almost as bad as Reps, and therefore
nothing matters anymoreone shouldn’t even vote” and that’s where I disagree.I’m not preaching nihilism. To the contrary, we need to be more involved in grassroots organizations now more than ever. Anyone who hasn’t done so should join a leftist org. Look for a PSL, DSA, FRSO, or CPUSA chapter near you.
Literally no one said not to vote. You can check. Y’all have yourselves in a group think so hard that you’ve made up some shit.
I even clarified that fact. Expecting more from your government is not nihilism, and y’all assuming someone criticizing the US duopoly as being nothing but nihilism is a problem, duder.
You’re just straight up lying. We’re on Lemmy dude. Posts and comments constantly saying not to vote. You’re not a serious person
Sorry, allow me to clarify AGAIN.
I didn’t tell you not to vote. Grow up and stop taking out your frustrations on me when you apparently have a problem with all of Lemmy.
literally no one said not to vote
Lying liar can’t stop lying
why would Biden increase the ICE budget
The null hypothesis here would be with “inflation”, and simpler explanations than yours would be “because Trump cut the funds” and “COVID lockdowns”
You may be right, but if you want anyone to accept your theory you need to provide sufficient evidence to overcome the simple answers.
The growth outpaces inflation.
Truthfully, the entire agency should be abolished. Any Democrat politician who tells you this can be reformed is continuing the American police state.
Did the growth outpace inflation under Biden?. The only thing I found in your link was a graph that ends with Biden’s first year that showed flat funding for ICE, plus some assertions about its total decades-long growth.
You’re absolutely right that ICE should be replaced with a few hundred bureaucratic functionaries to stamp passports. But I don’t think we get there without clear partisan blame.
If you scroll down there is a graph showing an increase of 760 million dollars. Here’s the graph for your convenience:
Note that the ICE budget is now over 9 billions dollars. (Even before Trump’s massive increase in 2025.) Inflation in 2023 was 4%. An increase to keep up with inflation would be about half of the increase that we see from 2023 to 2024.
The point is that there is no one to vote for that will abolish ICE because both parties agree that it should continue. And there are many such examples of bi-partisan agreement that supports the wealthy, fascism, or both. I’d be happy to list them for you if you’d like more concrete examples.
True. But it’s also true that most democrats aren’t much better than the current US admin. I can understand OP’s frustration when they vote to keep on funding ICE etc.
And it’s true that they rely almost just as much on corporate donors as the other side, and because of that most have given up on pushing for any kind of social policy.
I just wonder if those donors really are the same people on both sides, or if Dems have different corporate donors. I can imagine someone like Peter Thiel donating to both parties simultaneously, thinking he’s playing 5D chess, but nobody else.
Don’t hold me at gunpoint about the exact numbers but like 5 mega corporations own everything in the US, so when you get down to brass tacks about corporate donors? 🫠
Liberals never want to zoom out and look at how we got here. George Bush created ICE after 9/11 even though we already put down Al Queda leadership. Then Obama increased its budget and deported 3 million people. Then Trump increased the budget. Then Biden increased the budget. Then Trump increased the budget again.
George Bush created ICE after 9/11 even though we already put down Al Queda leadership. Then Obama increased its budget and deported 3 million people. Then Trump increased the budget. Then Biden increased the budget. Then Trump increased the budget again.
That’s a bit disingenuous
Also, yes Obama deported a lot, but all deportations went through immigration courts. trump actually is skipping that part. Going after people, many of who have pending cases (therefore technically are here legally and going through the proper channels to stay here).
The nuance is appreciated but it doesn’t negate the point. Democrats are okay with the police state, imperialism, corporate welfare, genocide, etc. so long as everything goes according to procedure and decorum.
Well, y’see, the other side historically has voted to increase/maintain this organization that’s terrorizing our country so…
Yes, they are both at fault. 🤷🏽♂️ I’m sorry that doesn’t align with your immediate reaction, but it doesn’t change their compliance with building this atrocity.
Trump is already talking about canceling the next election, and you want Progressives to stay home.
Sounds like you’re doing Trump’s job for him.
This isn’t team sports, bud, this is rich fucks versus normal people.
You want to stand on business about real change, you have to be ready and willing to hold the government accountable no matter the banner they fly under. I wanted Zohran and AOC to be better, but they’re not. They’re supporting cruelty and death across the globe. 🤷🏽♂️
You didn’t actually respond to the point, that you’re doing Trump’s job for him.
A lot of people didn’t vote last time because of the genocide in Gaza. Now we have a genocide in Gaza, an ongoing genocide in Ukraine, and new one in Venezuela, plus ICE killing folks here in the USA.
And the DNC has learned nothing.
Schumer and Jefferies can’t even muster the bare minimum of saying that ICE needs to be removed from our streets.
Sanders is playing both sides of Venezuela AND Israel.
Pelosi has more insider trading crimes under her belt than I have ass hair.
Stop blaming your neighbors and point that indignant rage at the people playing you like a fool. Demand better than shiny turds.
Mamdani and AOC did it, in the strongest Democrat strong hold in the nation.
Who are you pushing in the primaries? How much have you sent to ActBlue?
Mamdani and AOC are actively condemning pro Palestine protestors in NYC.
Not condemning the Zionists using synagogues in NYC to host real estate sales of West Bank properties.
Not condemning the pro Zionist counter protesters flying hate flags and spewing bile.
Immediately attacking the left.
They lied to get the votes and are knee capping momentum on the people’s movements to protect genocidal warmongers.
I am deeply sorry, and I understand it’s a pain in the ass to keep being disappointed in these politicians- But I’m not the villain for expecting the DNC to do better. 🤷🏽♂️
Youre the reason that lady died last week
You got downvoted for being right
Sure I am, puddin.
The first pass the post mathematically produces a two party system (not voting won’t change it, support ranked choice voting).
Republican party was essentially taken over by MAGA.
Democrats are basically everyone else. They have different views and that’s why they are not as effective.
Among Democrats there are so-called corporate democrats which normally would be Republicans, some of them might even be fine with trump.
The solution here isn’t being apathetic and so voting because “both parties are the same”.
The solution here is the opposite and being involved much more. Replacing those corporate Democrats with progressives in primaries and during general election voting for Democrats as every Republican that wins seat will be much worse than even those corporate democrats.
We got here because public apathy, and taking democracy for granted. People still don’t understand how fragile democracy is and how easy it is to lose it despite trump and Republicans being in the middle of destroying it.
One of these parties is easier to fight and does less damage when given power.
Now that is a very crucial difference, yes. But that doesn’t mean they’re immune to criticism when they go from “I’ll arrest Netanyahu” to “Wait noooo don’t say mean words” 🤷🏽♂️🤘🏽
Part of the benefit of electing Democrats is that they can be embarrassed.
Hopefully Schumer and Jefferies will begin to get embarrassed at any point now, then.
BoTh SiDeS, how helpful and totally not why we’re here.
Been playing good cop bad cop (without any change in geopolitical strategy) for idk how long and Americans still don’t get it. I have very little hope for them ever turning their genocidal post-colonial abortion of a nation into a normal society.
AOC and Mamdani are under heat this morning because they’ve opted to run PR campaigns for an illegal land sale (West Bank land) taking place in New York City.
Fuck the duopoly.
Source for the claim that AOC and Mamdani are running PR for Zionists?
And I need to stress, neither of them had shit to say about NYC chanting (rightfully, imo) for Noem to hang. 🤷🏽♂️
They’re actively condemning pro Palestine protests, themselves.
Ah ok, I see. Eh, people who support hamas are gross.
Learn to link to sources unless you're ready to provide a redundant text alternative: you screenshot is inaccessible.
Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative such as link:
- usability
- we can’t quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR
- text search is unavailable
- the system can’t
- reflow text to varied screen sizes
- vary presentation (size, contrast)
- vary modality (audio, braille)
- accessibility
- lacks semantic structure (tags for titles, heading levels, sections, paragraphs, lists, emphasis, code, links, accessibility features, etc)
- some users can’t read the image due to lack of alt text (markdown image description)
- users can’t adapt the text for dyslexia or vision impairments
- systems can’t read the text to them or send it to braille devices
- web connectivity
- we have to do failure-prone bullshit to find the original source
- we can’t explore wider context of the original message
- authenticity: we don’t know the image hasn’t been tampered
- searchability: the “text” isn’t indexable by search engine in a meaningful way
- fault tolerance: no text fallback if
- image breaks
- image host is geoblocked due to insane regulations.
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images.
Referring to objections to Hamas as “PR campaigns for an illegal land sale” or a blanket condemnation of “pro Palestine protests” is an obvious strawman fallacy & you know that. Work on your integrity & be less cartoonishly dishonest.
- usability
Ah shit. Not that I had much faith in them, I know why they get brown and “Muslim” faces into power. Oh well. Keep on fighting the good fight, brother. ✊
This is why we need a variety of tactics and not just relying on peaceful options that ultimately achieve nothing.
Don’t let perfect become the enemy of the good. Everything in life happens on steps. It’s important to tackle the problems we are facing now rather than throw in the towel as this meme suggests.
This right here is some bottom-barrel reactionary thinking with a dusting of false dichotomy.
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The problem here is your definition of “good”. We don’t want “perfect”. We just don’t agree that Democrats are good. Democrats might be relatively better than Republicans but to a leftist, they are still far from being considered “good”. From a leftist perspective, enabling neoliberalist politics is in no way solving what we have now, only further enabling them to consolidate power over us until the fascist right can eventually take control and use the systems they BOTH have built to further oppress the people.
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there are more options than “support the Democrats or throw in the towel”.
Yes, everything in life does happen in steps. The problem is thinking that the steps you are taking are leading you to the indented goal. If you only ever use reactionary thinking to justify your steps, you will be led astray by those in power who know how to manipulate your shortsighted logic.
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I’m not telling anyone to throw in the towel, just expecting people to hold those they support accountable for being shitheads. 🤷🏽♂️ Criticism of the US duopoly isn’t intended as nihilism, and it sucks that people are translating it that way.
Honestly it’s all irrelevant because the democratic party is on the brink of ceasing to exist.
Careful, you’ll get thrown into blame for Renee’s death next too.
Chuck Schumer Will save us… 😂🤣😂🤣😂😅
Susan Collins is very concerned.
One party to broken, selfish, and corrupt. The other protects pedophiles…
