Sigh… I miss the days when Rage Against The Machine focused on music and wasn’t political.
Tap for spoiler
I feel obligated to say this is sarcasm, just because of the way things are. (There are actually some people who said this to Tom on Xitter lmao.)
I know right! The band didn’t start getting political until 1991.
spoiler
The band was founded in 1991.
Right wing guy in my discord said it was one of his 1st concerts. Like dude, are u deaf?
Stupid conservatives think, “fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me,” is speaking to them. Your spoiler / deflection is absolutely necessary. There are a lot of people who don’t understand what they take in.
What machine do these people think they are raging against? A dishwasher?
Hp printer
To be fair, it’d definitely be justified…
hE sHoULd sTAy oUt oF puHLityiCks
Organize and protect yourselves and those you care about, Nazis won’t care.
Arm yourselves.
The Nazis are already armed.
Diesel, bear spray, propane, and gasoline don’t care if you’re wearing a bulletproof vest.
Just pointing that out in case it becomes relevant.
Yep, becoming familiar with firearms is something I wish was unnecessary, but until the working class is liberated it’s necessary. I dream of a future where the working class has won triumphantly, worldwide, and that violence fades into urban legend outside of somber historical remembrance.
I’ll upvote Tom Morello anytime
Upvote ticketmaster
When I was a Republican I saw this talking point come up a lot and sadly I used to buy into it. Basically GOPers attack RATM by claiming they are actually part of the machine and justify their argument by saying other people such as outspoken actors in Hollywood have the same politics and that they charge high ticket prices and use services such as Ticketmaster, perform at large venues and associated with Sony Music (through Epic Records).
Reflecting on this it’s not a good argument. In life things are not perfect so while they may be doing things like using Ticketmaster they are still doing a lot of good things and working towards a more fair and equitable society, perhaps one day in part due to their music motivating and encouraging people to elect more progressive people Ticketmaster will be regulated or broken up.
It’s surprising to me to see the same talking points I’m familiar with come not from the right but come from the left because you and RATM likely have a lot in common when it comes to political stances. For example I’m sure you and RATM are both against police brutality. Even if Sony manufactures RATM’s CDs isn’t it a lot better that someone has RATM playing in their car instead of whatever right wing talk show trash is playing on Clear Channel-owned stations (now called iheartmedia)?
Morello being into shitcoins got to me.
That’s like saying cops can fix the system from the inside
I guess if you ignore everything they said, yeah sure it kind of is like saying that 🤔
The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.
In a tolerant society we must be intolerant of intolerance.
My only disagreement with Popper is hes too lenient in what counts as intolerant
Edit - My mistake, I somehow was blind to the first in-.
In a tolerant society we must be intolerant of intolerance.
No we musn’t. The intolerant have broken the social contract and are no longer extended that latitude.
Screw the paradox. Tolerance is a social contract. Intolerant people aren’t covered by the contract, therefore intolerance of intolerance isn’t hypocritical or paradoxical.
You are agreeing. They said we must be INtolerant of intolerance.
You are correct, I misread what they wrote despite quoting it. Whoops. 🙂
Nazis deserve exactly as much mercy and tolerance as they give to others.
There, the solution!
Repay everyone exactly as much tolerance as they give to you
No, this wording is bad.
I get a lot of tolerance from Nazis, because I’m a big, white, blue eyed, german dude. And I do not intend to give that back, I’ll give them exactly as much tolerance as they give to my ethnic or sexual minority brothers and sisters.
Fair enough!
Violence against Nazis isnt the answer, its a question and the answer is always yes.
Saw him play recently in Alabama. They were selling this phrase on a shirt. Much to my surprise, that shirt was sold out by the time I went to pick it up. I was pleasantly shocked.
Reading that makes me very happy! I try tell people this whenever I can: there’s hope everywhere in America, no matter how red a state is now it can become blue one day. I was a Trump supporter myself and changed, other people can too! Think about all the people in Alabama who bought that shirt. If they banded together they could change Alabama for the better. Things won’t be instant but perhaps they get a better mayor elected, then a better state representative then send someone better to the House, then one day a better Senator. If we try and work together it can happen!
Just checked their online merch page and the shirt isn’t there. But third-party shirt printers are easy to find and cost not much. Everyone who can should buy one and wear it proudly.
Saw someone wearing that shirt in a shopping mall in the UK!
$50 each no doubt
That’s how bands make most of their money in the streaming era and with ticketmaster raking in a big chunk of the ticket sales despite not providing much.
They could just play shows at venues not owned by Ticketmaster
Good luck with that
That’s a super naive take.
Lmao why?
My buddy bought tickets to a ratm show. He had no one to go with so he invited me. We got there and were bombarded with Pepsi, lysol, and tons of other brand advertising projected on every wall of the massive stadium owned by a billionaire. We waiting for an hour while the advertisements wore our souls down to nothing
Then when the show finally starts it turns out most of the people there are complaining about how political the band has gotten.
Maybe when your ticket prices START at $150, you may not be the band of the people you thought you were.
That doesn’t mean they have to play at their venues. They have enough money that they could just post up in an empty field somewhere.
The only viable solution when Nazis take control of government is violence. There is no reasoning with them, they are not logical.
Yeah? You and what army? Seriously tho I’m looking to join.
I am exercising my 2nd amendment rights, purchasing multiple firearms for multiple purposes and have signed up for classes at a local range. I’m with you, but acknowledge that this part of it feels like a lonely endeavor.
Wish the UK’s right to defend itself wasn’t banned in 1997.
This is correct, and also, Nazis don’t care about good faith argumentation. They’re explicitly anti-liberal (as in, liberty, freedom) and will only pretend to have these values to try and point out an apparent contradiction (“You believe in rights to speech and democracy, so why are you censoring us?”)
In this video of former white supremacists talking about how they left the ideology, one brings up that on their Nazi website, it was normal and common to argue for points they knew were garbage, like the Great Replacement theory. It’s about power and results, not liberalist idealism.
Violent methods usually aren’t the preferred way of dealing with Nazis (because it’s harder to get a mass movement to join in and support it, and because it’s riskier, legally, which makes it harder to sustain), but it works. It broke up the BUF in Britain, it’s kept the local turds scared to show their faces or reveal their true thoughts (don’t worry, they still usually get revealed by researchers anyway). Violence works. They know it and we know it. But when they’re the government, their violence is now legal.
these values to try and point out an apparent contradiction (“You believe in rights to speech and democracy, so why are you censoring us?”)
Nazis want to take that freedom
Of course, but it’s there now and they’re happy to abuse it. Call them hypocrites all you want, they couldn’t care less.
History has proven this.
The violence came from outside the country last time. That’s not happening this time.
Except maybe the troll you are replying to wants violence. 🤷
Maybe. It will take more than just a desire for violence to overcome the most powerful military the world has ever seen.
Nazis deserve to be shot and killed
Nazi is a mental illness, sequester them and heal, or keep boxed forever incommunicado to prevent spread of the disease.
This guy is based af
the goat
I wanna hear everyone’s fight music! I’ve been leaning on RTJ the last few days.
Yess, I’ve been trying to explore punk. Give me punk bands with lyrics I can understand, and who are vocally critical of conservatism and fascism please.
For myself -
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A lot of RATM has floated to the top for me in the past few years. They are in heavy rotation now, and weren’t really for about fifteen years prior to that. The songs you don’t immediately think of when I say RATM have lyrics that are just as true and just as biting. If you like their sound but aren’t familiar with most of their work, this is a good time.
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Brother Ali - particularly songs like Uncle Sam Goddamn
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Dropkick Murphys, particularly most of the Album “This Machine Still Kills Fascists”
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Anti-Flag. I know they have proven to have done some shady things with regard to harassing some women at their shows, but I only just discovered them recently (and learned this about them afterwards.) Unfortunately I like their songs and lyrics. “Victory or Death” comes to mind immediately.
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Public Enemy - By the time I get to arizona, Black steel in the hour of chaos, fight the power (obv), fight the power 2020, really I don’t think they do a song that’s not good for the current state of affairs. Over and over in recent years I have concluded that the hip hop community saw what was and what was coming long before (decades before) the rest of us. I wonder why. 🤔
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Last couple Arrested Development albums. Good tracks off the top of my head “And This I know” “The Meek” “Amazing” “Fire” “Moses” Gotta listen to these, most aren’t going to leap out with the expected energy if you don’t pay attention to the lyrics all the way through. There are others. Their last three albums have a high percentage of gems IMO.
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Really old one by B. Dolan called “Which side are you on?” (loosely based aoround Guthrie song) which is congruent with a lot of today’s issues, though I think it was written primarily in support of this woman. Gonna link it here because I just listened to it again and damn does it slap.
A lot of what I listed above is unsurprisingly posted by me or others in !music@lemmy.world
Further recommendations for your exploration: any band Ian MacKaye has played in. Even if you don’t care for his work, he has had an outsized impact on the development of American punk / hardcore (even if he’s resisted that attribution). Specific recommendations include:
- Minor Threat - self titled (straight up hc punk)
- Embrace - Building (early emo, when that just meant it was a hardcore song that touched on emotions other than anger)
- Fugazi - Waiting Room, or the 13 Songs album as a whole (post-hardcore, or “hardcore, but we’re not afraid to show off that we’ve learned some music theory”)
Okay, with MacKaye given his due, other “classic punk” recommendations include:
- Agent Orange - Bloodstains
- Bad Brains - I Against I
- Black Flag - Fix Me, TV Party, My War
- Circle Jerks - Wild in the Streets, Live Fast Die Young, World up My Ass
- Dead Kennedys - Nazi Punks Fuck Off, California Über Alles, Holiday in Cambodia
- Germs - Lexicon Devil
- The Clash - Straight to Hell, White Riot, Lost in the Supermarket, and many more.
- Operation Ivy - Sound System
- The Descendents - Suburban Home
- Social Distortion - Story of My Life, Mommy’s Little Monster
- Buzzcocks - Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn’t’ve)?
- Hüsker Dü - Don’t Wanna Know If You Are Lonely, Pink Turns to Blue
- The Replacements - Androgynous, Bastards of Young, Here Comes a Regular, Can’t Hardly Wait, Answering Machine, Alex Chilton
- Minutemen - History Lesson Part 2, Corona
Some slightly deeper cuts, more in the proto-emo space than political punk, but they share a lot of musical DNA and I think some of these tracks are underrated.
- Rites of Spring - For Want Of
- The Hated - Words Come Back
- Dag Nasty - Circles
- Gray Matter - Burn No Bridges
- Soulside - Pearl to Stone
- IGNITION - Previous
- Fire Party - Cake
- Samiam - Tired of Waiting
- Fuel - Cue to You
- Drive Like Jehu - Here Come the Rome Plows
That’s probably enough for now. I hope you find some stuff you like here.
Thank you very much!
other “classic punk” recommendations include:
I’m really just about the ideal age to have been an OG Punk fan, but at the time my attention was elsewhere, so I’m excited to crib from this list. 🙂
Ah, I’m a bit younger (in fact I don’t believe there’s a song on that list that was released after I was born), but I’m a big history geek, and the evolution of genre is a particular fascination of mine, so I have intentionally sought out the music which influenced bands I liked in high school.
I’m sure I’ve missed out on some killer acts from the era, so hopefully someone who was both alive at the time AND paying attention to the scene will appear and give us both an education.
A tangentially related suggestion for you, if you share my fascination with the context around the art we make (though you are probably well aware if you’re an old-head haha), there’s an EXCELLENT documentary about the LA hc punk scene that was released during its zenith (arguably) in 1981. Several of the bands I mention in that list appear. It is called The Decline of Western Civilization, and the most convincing argument I can make to get people to watch it is that the LAPD chief wrote an op-ed demanding theaters not screen it.
UK Subs - Riot, Social Distortion - Don’t Drag Me Down, Restraining Order - Fight Back, The Casualties - 1312, Pennywise - Fuck Authority, Against All Authority - We Won’t Submit, Descendants - 'Merican (ugh, the formatting on mobile isn’t wonderful)
Eyyy, +1 for Pennywise. That’s a band I’ve not thought about in some time.
Thank you very much!
All of these groups rule. Good taste in music
Thank you!
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Show Me the Body is great.
Probably a lot of obvious choices on here, but I like to think of it as honoring the classics of the genre, and hopefully there are a few entries which are new to folks.
- Crime Mob - Knuck if You Buck (this goes at the start of the playlist, because, in my experience, playing this to a crowd of significant size will result in hands being thrown somewhere, it is a statistical inevitability)
- Godsmack - I Stand Alone
Pantera - WalkPhil Anselmo is a Nazi shit weasel and I was unaware.- Limp Bizkit - Rollin
- Rage Against the Machine - Fistful of Steel
- Lil Wayne ft Eminem- Drop the World
- CKY - 96 Quite Bitter Beings
- DMX - X Gon Give It To Ya
- Ludacris - Get Back
- KMFDM - Free Your Hate
- Aesop Rock - None Shall Pass
- Powerman 5000 - When Worlds Collide
- Static-X - Push It
- DJ Shadow ft Run the Jewels - Nobody Speak
- Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - Red Right Hand
- Slipknot - People=Shit
- Slayer - Raining Blood
- Holy Fuck - Tom Tom
- Danzig - Mother
- Queens of the Stone Age - You Think I Ain’t Worth a Dollar, But I Feel Like A Millionaire (gotta find an edit without the intro tho)
- Mastodon - Blood and Thunder
- Mïngle Härder (formerly Möngöl Hörde) - Blistering Blue Barnacles
Two nautical themed metal/hardcore songs which get me ready to tussle isn’t a lot, but it is weird that it happened twice.
- Rise Against - State of the Union
- Coheed and Cambria - Key Entity Extraction V: Sentry the Defiant (with honorable mention to In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth:3 and Welcome Home)
- Chevelle - The Red
- Bullet For My Valentine - Waking the Demon
- Eve 6 - Think Twice
- Hole - Violet
- Dead Kennedys - Nazi Punks Fuck Off
- Smashing Pumpkins - Bullet With Butterfly Winds
That seems like enough brainstorming for now. Hope someone finds something they vibe with.
Definitely need to take Pantera off your Nazi fighting list.
Oh Jesus fucking Christ. Thank you for letting me know, I’ll edit that immediately. The worst part is that I’ve conditioned myself to cope with the news I’ve just received by listening to Pantera.
Yeah, that was an unpleasant surprise to me too. I found out when I was singing along with the song at karaoke and a native American friend of mine got really mad. Ending the song calling someone “boy” has a very different meaning when it’s considered with racial context.
Yes, though this is a scenario where I’d argue such a reading is a touch overzealous, and is exactly the sort of overreaction that leads idiots to think that calling Musk’s Nazi salutes what they are is just pearl clutching. The song is about haters who talk mad shit behind your back, but don’t dare say anything to your face. Therefore, “boy” is being used to imply the narrator doesn’t consider these people to be “men”, as they lack some quality (maturity, courage, whatever) necessary to qualify.
Also, the world changed a lot in the decades between the song’s release and 2016. I’m not going to go digging to try and find out exactly how much of a piece of shit Anselmo has been and for how long. Fucker isn’t worth my mental bandwidth, so I’m okay with operating on the assumption that, like many, many folks, he was radicalized over time by the rise of the “alt-right” and becoming wealthy. In either case, it doesn’t change the fact that I’ve got no intention of ever financially supporting his endeavors in the future, despite enjoying some of his output in the past.
I’ve known about KMFDM for a long time but discovered Free Your Hate about this time in 2017, it’s too bad it’s that relevant again but at least we’ve got some good Nazi-punching music.
In all honesty, I have no idea how I came across that song. Despite some of the other selections that are also in that mold, industrial metal isn’t actually a genre I fuck with that much. I’m open to it, especially as I’ve continued to get comfortable in some of the less melodic subgenres, but the actual wave of popularity these bands were riding on missed me as a kid and ive come to it later.
I assume that it must have been included in a video game soundtrack of some kind? In fact, as I’ve been writing this comment, I think it may have been a part of the Brutal Legend soundtrack, and I had all of that stuff on my iPod at the time.
Song do go pretty hard tho, don’t it?
It really does. And I do think it was on the Brutal Legend soundtrack. I know it because I’m just old enough to remember that sort of stuff back in the 90s when it was big.
Do you have other recommendations from their catalog? This is the only track of there’s I think I’ve listened to.
+1 for State of the Union and Sentry the Defiant. I also see your Waking the Demon and raise you one You want a Battle? (Here’s a War). I don’t know if we’re all against Anti-flag with Justin Sane being a trash human, but their catalogue is still good for this situation.
State of the Union has been one of my favorites to the point I honestly forgot it’s not a single
I listened to Siren Song of the Counter Culture all the way through for the first time since probably 2007 a little while ago, and tbh, there’s little on the record I would call filler. Some songs do less for me than others, so I’m not gonna say it meets “All Killer” criteria, but I was surprised by how much I was enjoying the deeper cuts.
In fact, it surfaced an embarrassing memory for me. When “Paper Wings” came on, I was reminded of a little light plagiarism I committed as a shitty 13 year old. We had discussed the use of enjambnent in “The Red Wheelbarrow”, and were told to write a poem with an emphasis on structure as much as meter or rhyme. Being (as mentioned) 13, shitty, and confident that Rise Against was not in my English teacher’s rotation, I basically just copied and pasted lyrics from that song and incorporated odd line breaks and punctuation.
Had I a modicum of self-awareness at the time, I’d like to think I’d have made different choices, but that’s high school, baby!
I almost don’t want to know, especially given what someone else shared with me about Pantera’s lead singer; but, given what I’m sure you’ve inferred from my selection, Anti-Flag was very much in my rotation for a couple of years. So, in the interest of doing the bare minimum necessary to claim I haven’t been ostriching the WHOLE time since the election, what revelations have come to light about this guy?
My read on it was that onstage he’d ogle underage girls/attendees, really flexing the rockstar swagger or whatever. He’d somehow relay to them an invitation to meet him after the show, and he’d bring them onto the tour bus where he’d pressure or trap them into having sex.
A silver lining is, as I read it, the rest of the band immediately disavowed him. Some fans/ commenters alleged the other band members had to have been aware he was doing this, particularly citing the close quarters of the tour bus. Yet, the band holds its stance that they really did not know.
Oof. Well, I’m disappointed but I refuse to let it ruin my day. I also tend to think that the band saying they had no idea is a stretch, but I empathize with someone who rationalizes away suspected bad behavior of a long term friend. I can’t say with 100% confidence that I wouldn’t do the same, as long as there was enough plausible deniability. If they disavowed him immediately upon it coming to light, well, I guess that’s better than praying for forgiveness and healing or whatever, even if they had thought his behavior was suspect beforehand and not acted on it. Perfect can’t be the enemy of good, and I’m just so fucking tired man…
Propaghandi is a big one for me since they’re from my city, but also Dead Kennedys, NoFX, Stray From the Path, Jeff Rosenstock
Edit:
I have more 😈:
- John K. Samson/The Weakerthans
- Nick Shoulders
- Jesse Welles
- The Narcissist Cookbook
- Jason Isbell
- John Prine
- Woody Guthrie
- The Coup
- Larry and his Flask
- Jordan Smart
- Phil Ochs
- Watchhouse
- Warren Zevon
- Elvis Costello
- The Orphans
- Mischief Brew
- The Tillers
- Country Joe McDonald
- Barbara Dane
- They Might be Giants
- David Rovics
Sorry, music and finding it is a special interest.
Don’t be sorry ✊
Of that list, I know TMBG. Always a fav of mine, and I appreciate their attempts to educate and promote science. The sun is a miasma of incandescent plasma!
I love the fact that the song you quoted is a kind of retraction of another, less scientifically accurate song of theirs.
The sun is a mass of incandescent gas…
It is, but they adopted it. It was originally written by Hy Zaret. They give him credit, of course, but it became theirs to steward.
They’ve definitely been one of my faves as well since I was a kid and found them while watching Malcom in the Middle
Add Leslie Fish to the list!
Okay commenting again to tell you I just looked this up and was reading the info for the artist and learned the term “filk” (science fiction folk) so I’m soooo in.
Thanks so much! I’m building a playlist so I’m always happy to take suggestions :)
That whole proapgandhi thing about then regretting the lyrics to Halle salasse up you ass for talking shit about Rastafari was dumb. That religion is nuts.
Ya can’t say I disagree with you there
Maybe Im basic but Rise Against still hits. Sudden Urge goes hard. Also turns out they just released a new song within the last 24h that I need to listen to
+1 Sudden Urge!
I slept on most of the post-Endgame catalogue except for maybe 5 songs, and this was not one of them. I eased up on the skip button one day in the car recently and got to hear it again, for what felt like the first time. It gave me chills.
I need to poke at their newer stuff. I kinda stopped paying attention to their new releases after Black Market and the one single they released a couple years after that, but there’s a few songs that hit that older style like The Eco Terrorist in Me that still go hard. I do respect that even as the sound left my general preferred punk sound, their lyrics remained as complex and literary as always (seriously how often are you looking up words from song lyrics in a dictionary?)
The dork in me loves when Tim does not end a line with a preposition.
From old timey union fight songs (ex Workers of the world, Awaken) to protest rock. The Swedish band Nationalteatern have a great banger “Staten och Kapitalet” about that the state and the capital sit in the same boat, but it is not those who row and the whip does not lick their fat necks.
I’ve been loving the old Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie, Phil Ochs, Billy Bragg, and Barbara Dane
This music just hits so hard
Dead Prez been radical and vocal about social and political issues since long before everyone else got there. Music is probably dated by now but their messages have always been consistent and they are very applicable today.
Basically anything off of Idles’ 2020 masterpiece, Ultra Mono. Grounds is probably the most direct fight song. My other favorites are War, Mr. Motivator, and Carcinogenic.
Guys he’s just a Nationalsozialistische
He’s supporting ya’ll americans Führer
If only his solo music was as good as his politics. The difference in quality between his work with RATM and his solo output is mind boggling.
That feels unnecessarily harsh. Especially since music is subjective and he’s purposefully not using his greatest skill, the electric guitar… and while I’m not a fan of the nightwatchman stuff, the music itself isn’t bad, just not my cup of tea. Also, the Audioslave stuff is great too, not just RATM. That’s already two hugely successful bands, which is 2 more than most artists.
