What’s your go too (secure) method for casting over the internet with a Jellyfin server.
I’m wondering what to use and I’m pretty beginner at this
I just expose my local machine to the internet, unsecured
Thanks stranger over the internet seems like the best option.
This is absolutely unhinged but god damn it, I respect you.
Yea same I don’t even care.
It’s an old laptop, I have a backup. Go ahead, fuck it up.
Do you at least have it on a VLAN?
I dunno. It’s plugged in directly to the modem/router provided by my ISP while my wifi is provided by a separate mesh setup, which is also plugged in to the modem/router 🤷♂️
Yeah, you’ll definitely want to make sure that computer is isolated. It doesn’t sound like it’s currently on a VLAN. The real danger isn’t just someone messing up that one machine, once they’re in, they’re behind your firewall and can potentially access anything else on your network. Smart home devices are often the next targets, things like light bulbs, security cameras, and especially Windows computers, which are usually easy to compromise if they’re on the same network.
You might be wondering, “How likely is that?” Honestly, very likely. Back when my website was online, it would get hit by hackers, mostly script kiddies, several times an hour.
I keep jellyfin up to date in a container and forward tcp/8920 on my router to the container. Easy and plenty secure. People in this thread are wildly overthinking it.
I think my approach is probably the most insane one, reading this thread…
So the only thing I expose to the public internet is a homemade reverse proxy application which supports both form based and basic authentication. The only thing anonymous users have access to is the form login page. I’m on top of security updates with its dependencies and thus far I haven’t had any issues, ever. It runs in a docker container, on a VM, on Proxmox. My Jellyfin instance is in k8s.
My mum wanted to watch some stuff on my Jellyfin instance on her Chromecast With Google TV, plugged into her ancient Dumb TV. There is a Jellyfin Android TV app. I couldn’t think of a nice way to run a VPN on Android TV or on any of her (non-existent) network infra.
So instead I forked the Jellyfin Android TV app codebase. I found all the places where the API calls are made to the backend (there are multiple). I slapped in basic auth credentials. Recompiled the app. Deployed it to her Chromecast via developer mode.
Solid af so far. I haven’t updated Jellyfin since then (6 months), but when I need to, I’ll update the fork and redeploy it on her Chromecast.
What an absolute gigachad XD
Clever, but very hands on
VERY hands on, wouldn’t recommend it haha.
But that’s the beauty of open source. You CAN do it
My go to secure method is just putting it behind Cloudflare so people can’t see my IP, same as every other service. Nobody is gonna bother wasting time hacking into your home server in the hopes that your media library isn’t shit, when they can just pirate any media they want to watch themselves with no effort.
Nobody is gonna bother wasting time hacking into your home server
They absolutely will lol. It’s happening to you right now in fact. It’s not to consume your media, it’s just a matter of course when you expose something to the internet publicly.
No, people are probing it right now. But looking at the logs, nobody has ever made it through. And I run a pretty basic setup, just Cloudflare and Authelia hooking into an LDAP server, which powers Jellyfin. Somebody who invests a little more time than me is probably a lot safer. Tailscale is nice, but it’s overkill for most people, and the majority of setups I see posted here are secure enough to stop any random scanning that happens across them, if not dedicated attention.
No, they are actively trying to get in right now. If you have Authelia exposed they’re brute forcing it. They’re actively trying to exploit vulnerabilities that exist in whatever outwardly accessible software you’re exposing is, and in many cases also in software you’re not even using in scattershot fashion. Cloudflare is blocking a lot of the well known CVEs for sure, so you won’t see those hit your server logs. If you look at your Authelia logs you’ll see the login attempts though. If you connect via SSH you’ll see those in your server logs.
You’re mitigating it, sure. But they are absolutely 100% trying to get into your server right now, same as everyone else. There is no consideration to whether you are a self hosted or a Fortune 500 company.
No, they are actively trying to get in right now. If you have Authelia exposed they’re brute forcing it.
No, they aren’t. Just to be sure, I just checked it, and out of the over 2k requests made to the Authelia login page in the last 24 hours, none have made it to the login page itself. You don’t know jack shit about what’s going on in another persons network, so I’m not sure why you’re acting like some kind of expert.
Yes they are. The idea that they’re not would be a statistical wonder.
2k requests made to the Authelia login page in the last 24 hours
Are you logging into your Authelia login page 2k times a day? If not, I suspect that some (most) of those are malicious lol.
You don’t know jack shit about what’s going on in another persons network
It’s the internet, not your network. And I’m well aware of how the internet works. What you’re trying to argue here is like arguing that there’s no possible way that I know your part of the earth revolves around the sun. Unless you’re on a different internet from the rest of us, you’re subject to the same behavior. I mean I guess I didn’t ask if you were hosting your server in North Korea but since you’re posting here, I doubt it.
I’m not sure why you’re acting like some kind of expert
Well I am an expert with over a decade of experience in cybersecurity, but I’m not acting like an expert here, I’m acting like somebody with at least a rudimentary understanding of how these things work.
Yes they are. The idea that they’re not would be a statistical wonder.
Guess I’m a wonder then. I’ve always thought of myself as pretty wonderful, I’m glad to hear you agree.
Are you logging into your Authelia login page 2k times a day? If not, I suspect that some (most) of those are malicious lol.
That’s 2k requests made. None of them were served. Try to keep up.
Well I am an expert with over a decade of experience in cybersecurity, but I’m not acting like an expert here, I’m acting like somebody with at least a rudimentary understanding of how these things work.
Then I guess I should get a career in cybersecurity, because I obviously know more than someone with over a decade of supposed experience. If you were worth whatever your company is paying you in wages, you would know that a rule blocking connections from other countries, and also requiring the request for the login page come from one of the services on your domain, will block virtually all malicious attempts to access your services. Such a rule doesn’t work for a public site, but for a selfhosted setup it’s absolutely an easy option to reduce your bandwidth usage and make your setup far more secure.
a rule blocking connections from other countries, and also requiring the request for the login page come from one of the services on your domain, will block virtually all malicious attempts to access your services.
Whoa whoa whoa. What malicious attempts?
You just told me you were the statistical wonder that nobody is bothering attack?
That’s 2k requests made. None of them were served.
So those 2k requests were not you then? They were hostile actors attempting to gain unauthorized access to your services?
Well there we have it folks lmao
What a bunch of B’s. Sure your up gets probed it’s happening to every ipv4 address all the time. But that is not hacking.
Anything you expose to the internet publicly will be attacked, just about constantly. Brute force attempts, exploit attempts, the whole nine. It is a ubiquitous and fundamental truth I’m afraid. If you think it’s not happening to you, you just don’t know enough about what you’re doing to realize.
You can mitigate it, but you can’t stop it. There’s a reason you’ll hear terms like “attack surface” used when discussing this stuff. There’s no “if” factor when it comes to being attacked. If you have an attack surface, it is being attacked.
Yup, the sad reality is that you don’t need to worry about the attacks you expect; You need to worry about the ones you don’t know anything about. Honeypots exist specifically to alert you that something has been breached.
Couple questions here.
What is a honeypot? I’ve only heard it in terms of piracy.
Also, what steps can someone take to reinforce this attack layer? You have an infograph or something people can google search their way through?
A honeypot is something that is intentionally left available, to alert you when it gets hit. In practice, they’re just a tool to tell security specialists when they need to start worrying; They wouldn’t be used by the average user at all.
The goal is to build your security like layers, and ideally have all of your services behind the secure walls. Between these layers, you have honeypots. If someone gets through your first layer of security but hits the honeypot, you know someone is sniffing around, or maybe has an exploit for your outer layer that you need to research. If they get through the second layer and hit your second honeypot, you know that someone is specifically targeting you (instead of simply running automated scans) and you need to pay closer attention. Etc…
Reinforcing the attack layer comes in two main forms, which work in tandem: Strengthening the actual layer, and reducing attack vectors. The first is focused on using strong passwords, keeping systems up to date, running something like Fail2Ban for services that are exposed, etc… The goal is for each layer of security to be robust, to reduce the chances of a bot attack actually working. Bots will simply sniff around and automatically throw shit at the wall to see if anything sticks.
The second part is focused on identifying and mitigating attack vectors. Essentially reducing the amount of holes in the wall. It doesn’t matter how strong the wall is if it’s full of holes for your server’s various services. The goal is typically to have each layer be as solid as possible, and grant access to the layers below it. So for instance, running a VPN. The VPN gets you access to the network, without exposing services externally. In order to access your services, they need to get through the VPN first, making the VPN the primary attack vector. So you can focus on ensuring that the VPN is secure, instead of trying to spread your focus amongst a dozen different services. If it’s exposed to the open internet, it is a new potential attack vector; The strength of the wall doesn’t actually matter, if one of those services has an exploit that someone can use to get inside your network.
Home users really only need to worry about things like compromised services, but corporate security specialists also focus on things like someone talking their way past the receptionist and into the server room, USB sticks getting “lost” around the building and plugged into random machines by curious employees, etc… All of these are attack vectors, even if they’re not digital. If you have three or four layers of security in a corporate setting and your third or fourth honeypot gets hit, you potentially have some corporate spy wrist-deep in your server room.
For an easy example, imagine having a default password on a service, and then exposing it to the internet via port forwarding. It doesn’t matter how strong your firewall is anymore. The bot will simply sniff the service’s port, try the default credentials, and now it has control of that service.
The better way to do it would be to reduce your attack vectors at each layer; Require the VPN to access the network via a secure connection, then have a strong password on the service so it can’t easily be compromised.
@EncryptKeeper That’s my experience. Zombied home computers are big business. The networks are thousands of computers. I had a hacker zombie my printer(!) maybe via an online fax connection and it/they then proceeded to attack everything else on my network. One older machine succumbed before I could lock everything down.
And this is the start of the longest crypto nerd fight I’ve seen on Lemmy. Well done, people!
Not so much a fight as an exercise in futility lol
Well, I might as well put a dog in the fight. I’m considering my final, actually secure deployment of nextcloud.
This discussion has convinced me that a vpn is the only answer.
And almost everyone says wireguard.K. Thats what I will build.
It’s not the only answer, but it’s the one that will get you the most secure with the least amount of effort.
Ya. I understand VPN. I do enterprise IT stuff. The things I build assume a secure environment. VPN is step one.
Nailing down a web server on the internet tho … there’s so many ways to attack. There’s so many things to secure. And its a bit complex to manage all that.
The nextcloud site covers hardening the server, but doesn’t even mention vpn.
I’ve been watching threads like this. I’m pretty convinced vpn is the answer.Yeah Nextcloud won’t mention VPN for hardening because the assumption is you want it publicly accessible.
I have a number of things publicly accessible and there are a number of things I do to secure them. crowdsec monitoring and blocking, a reverse proxy with OIDC for authentication, a WAF in front of it all. But those are only for the things I have exposed because I want other people to use them. If it’s something just for me, I don’t bother with all that and just access it via VPN.
I used to do all the things mentioned here. Now, I just use Wireguard. If a family member wants to use a service, they need Wireguard. If they don’t want to install it, they dont get the service.
Came here to say this. I use wireguard and it simply works.
I started my homelab with a couple exposed services, but frankly the security upkeep and networking headaches weren’t worth the effort when 99% of this server’s usage is at home anyway.
I’ve considered going the Pangolin route to expose a handful of things for family but even that’s just way too much effort for very little added value (plus moving my reverse proxy to a VPS doesn’t sound ideal in case the internet here goes down).
Getting 2 or 3 extra folks on to wireguard as necessary is just much easier.
Pangolin could be a solution
Tailscale with self hosted headscale
Any helpful tips or links to tutorials for this method?
Easiest method is Docker, but it heavily depends on your network and tech stacks.
I host it publicly accessible behind a proper firewall and reverse proxy setup.
If you are only ever using Jellyfin from your own, wireguard configured phone, then that’s great; but there’s nothing wrong with hosting Jellyfin publicly.
I think one of these days I need to make a “myth-busting” post about this topic.
Same for me. But according to everyone I should be destroyed.
Please do so, it’ll be very useful
for me the easiest option was to set up tailscale on the server or network where jellyfin runs and then on the client/router where you want to watch the stream.
This is also what I do, however, each user creates their own tailnet, not an account on mine and I share the server to them.
This way I keep my 3 free users for me, and other people still get to see jellyfin.
Tailscale and jellyfin in docker, add server to tailnet and share it out to your users emails. They have to install tailscale client in a device, login, then connect to your jellyfin. My users use Walmart Onn $30 streaming boxes. They work great.
I struggled for a few weeks to get it all working, there’s a million people saying “I use this” but never “this is how to do it”. YouTube is useless because it’s filled with “jellyfin vs Plex SHOWDOWN DEATH FIGHT DE GOOGLE UR TOILET”.
For the users you have using Onn TVs, is Tailscale just installed on a device on the network or on the Onn TVs?
The onn boxes run android so it’s just installed as an app from play store. The users connect with their own tailscale account. My server is shared so they see it. Then they install jellyfin on the device, punch in the hostname of the server given by tailscale and the port and then it connects.
I could not get my reverse proxy to let them use my local domain… I’m not smart enough and couldn’t figure it out but they are only using jellyfin so typing one address was fine.
Thank you for following up.
This is what I do as well. Works super well
If you’re a beginner and you’re looking for the most secure way with least amount of effort, just VPN into your home network using something like WireGuard, or use an off the shelf mesh vpn like Tailscale to connect directly to your JF server. You can give access to your VPN to other people to use. Tailscale would be the easiest to do this with, but if you want to go full self-hosted you can do it with WireGuard if you’re willing to put in a little extra leg work.
What I’ve done in the past is run a reverse proxy on a cloud VPS and tunnel that to the JF server. The cloud VPS acts as a reverse proxy and a web application firewall which blocks common exploits, failed connection attempts etc. you can take it one step beyond that if you want people to authenticate BEFORE they reach your server by using an oauth provider and whatever forward Auth your reverse proxy software supports.
For now just Tailscale but I’m working on setting up a reverse proxy and SSO through Authentik
Even more secure is having a VPS and self hosting Heascale, even better is Wireguard
I’m trying to move away from needing a VPN to connect to make it simpler for less technically inclined family members
Usually just needs to be set up once. A small price to pay for security.
I access it through a reverse proxy (nginx). I guess the only weak point is if someone finds out the domain for it and starts spamming the login screen. But I’ve restricted access to the domain for most of the world anyway. Wireguard would probably be more secure but its not always possible if like on vacation and want to use it on the TV there…
This is the biggest weakness of Jellyfin. Native OIDC support would really be a no brainer at this point.
It is possible if you get something like an nvidia shield tho. But of course not everyone has it or the money for it
Its very easy to deploy fail2ban for Jellyfin: https://jellyfin.org/docs/general/post-install/networking/advanced/fail2ban/
Indeed a good recommendation. I’ve not set it up yet but I’m probably going to do so in the near future.
“Technically” my jellyfin is exposed to the internet however, I have Fail2Ban setup blocking every public IP and only whitelisting IP’s that I’ve verified.
I use GeoBlock for the services I want exposed to the internet however, I should also setup Authelia or something along those lines for further verification.
Reverse proxy is Traefik.
Cloudflare. No public exposure to the internet.
Are we not worried about their terms of service? I’ve been using pangolin
I run multiple enterprise companies through it who are transferring significantly more sensitive data than me. I’m not as strict as some people here, so no, I don’t really care. I think it’s the best service, especially for free, so until things change, that’s what I’m using.
We are, Batman, we are.
I VPN to my network for it.
I expose jellyfin and keycloak to the internet with pangolin, jellyfin user only has read access. Using the sso 🔌 jellyfin listens to my keycloak which has Google as an identity provider(admin disabled), restricting access to my users, but letting people use their google identity. Learned my family doesn’t use anything that isn’t sso head-to-toe.
It’s what we do in the shadows that makes us heroes, kalpol.
First time I hear someone using keycloak for local hosting.
We have it open to the public, behind a load balancer URL filtering incomming connection, https proxied through cloudflare with a country filter in place
Sad that mTLS support is non existent because it solves this problem.
It would cover all phones, pcs and maybe Android TVs.
The barrier to entry would be having to replace the cert every year since we now made that a thing. Maybe spin up a self-sign shirt server and start issuing people 10 years certs
