That does seem to be the direction the games have been going, and I think it must be an audience patience thing.
Demon Souls is a good example of the level being the main challenge, with the boss at the end as more of a bonus (Flamelurker being an exception). Later games, even Elden Ring, are way more boss focused.
I guess I like both, although now that you mention it, we’ve had a lot of dance move bosses lately, and it would be cool to see a new game go back to the genre’s roots.
I think it’s also a consequence of the faster gameplay. We now have faster characters with more rolls available, as well as wider open areas where you can easily stay out of reach of enemies. The proportion of people just running back to the boss instead of fighting their way through probably reached a point where From thought “Why bother?”
Everything the ER did feels like it’s taking away from the feeling the Souls games gave. The open world, with Torrent, makes it so you just run past everything. You can immediately teleport anywhere you want to be. If you ever die, there’s no worry because you’ll spawn right there and easily be able to reset.
I liked ER, but I still think DS1 is the best game they’ve made for how it feels to exist in the world. Mechanically they’ve all been a step forward, but each one has been a step back (excluding Sekiro) in feeling like you exist in the world, and you’re on an adventure through it.
My buddy has been theorycrafting a game for a while and the topic of respawn and loss came up. My thoughts are that the more you lose the easier it should be to get back.
Valheim has you drop your entire inventory, and try to run back (or sail) completely naked (or keep a 2nd set of gear), then go into the situation that killed you when you arguably were the most prepared to try to get it back. I hate it.
Running back through 12 samurai to do the fight again, to die again, but the only loss is travel time is completely fair.
A loss of “time” really hurts when you only have a little time to play though. I’ve bounced off of Elden ring and dark souls a couple of times when I get to fights that don’t respect my time. If I’m spending half the time just getting to the boss, then that feels like wasted time.
This is a valid opinion, but I think youre in the minority and people would rather a hard boss that takes them multiple tries than a hard level and easy bosses like demons souls. And especially having to slog through a level you consider easy just to die by a boss is not a good feeling for many people. Its a feeling of, youve already explored and overcome that part multiple times, you just want to practice and overcome the next thing more than redoing it.
But obviously people like both ways or ds2 and hollow knight wouldnt also be popular
![[DS3/Ds2] Come back home.](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ae10b9cb-a150-47d3-9db8-e6c5de795dc9.jpeg){kind=link}
Just getting to respawn in front of the boss is so much less fun.
I want to journey through a game, not beat an elaborate and overcomplicated dance move set.
Just make the boss easier if the total length to beat takes too long.
You want the Boss, the actual fun thing, to be nerfed so that the runback stays incredibly annoying? Man, talk about nuclear hot take…
That does seem to be the direction the games have been going, and I think it must be an audience patience thing.
Demon Souls is a good example of the level being the main challenge, with the boss at the end as more of a bonus (Flamelurker being an exception). Later games, even Elden Ring, are way more boss focused.
I guess I like both, although now that you mention it, we’ve had a lot of dance move bosses lately, and it would be cool to see a new game go back to the genre’s roots.
I think it’s also a consequence of the faster gameplay. We now have faster characters with more rolls available, as well as wider open areas where you can easily stay out of reach of enemies. The proportion of people just running back to the boss instead of fighting their way through probably reached a point where From thought “Why bother?”
Everything the ER did feels like it’s taking away from the feeling the Souls games gave. The open world, with Torrent, makes it so you just run past everything. You can immediately teleport anywhere you want to be. If you ever die, there’s no worry because you’ll spawn right there and easily be able to reset.
I liked ER, but I still think DS1 is the best game they’ve made for how it feels to exist in the world. Mechanically they’ve all been a step forward, but each one has been a step back (excluding Sekiro) in feeling like you exist in the world, and you’re on an adventure through it.
My buddy has been theorycrafting a game for a while and the topic of respawn and loss came up. My thoughts are that the more you lose the easier it should be to get back.
Valheim has you drop your entire inventory, and try to run back (or sail) completely naked (or keep a 2nd set of gear), then go into the situation that killed you when you arguably were the most prepared to try to get it back. I hate it.
Running back through 12 samurai to do the fight again, to die again, but the only loss is travel time is completely fair.
A loss of “time” really hurts when you only have a little time to play though. I’ve bounced off of Elden ring and dark souls a couple of times when I get to fights that don’t respect my time. If I’m spending half the time just getting to the boss, then that feels like wasted time.
Yeah Valheim body runs can be insane if you didn’t get portal down or it was destroyed in whatever killed you (goddamn Ashlands!)
At least the settings allow reducing it to just loose inventory dropped on death (all equipped gear is kept).
I could see it being fun if you’re playing with a friend or two though.
85% of the time its trying to recover your friend’s stuff and wondering why they have so much trash in their inventory but also 22 loaves of bread.
But also maybe my friends are just hoarders.
This is a valid opinion, but I think youre in the minority and people would rather a hard boss that takes them multiple tries than a hard level and easy bosses like demons souls. And especially having to slog through a level you consider easy just to die by a boss is not a good feeling for many people. Its a feeling of, youve already explored and overcome that part multiple times, you just want to practice and overcome the next thing more than redoing it.
But obviously people like both ways or ds2 and hollow knight wouldnt also be popular