The burqua is kind of a symbol of oppression. Even if they are just wearing out of habit and no one is forcing them to, the whole dress stems from a system of oppression.
I don’t think I have a right to tell them to not wear it, just as much as their family/culture doesn’t have a right to force them to wear it, but let’s not pretend it’s just any other garment, it comes with a lot of baggage.
I think his point was even if they themselves converted to Islam and choose to wear the burqua completely on their own accord, it doesn’t stop it from being a symbol of oppression. IIRC there is nothing in the Quaran about being covered in this way, it’s purely about fascistic control from religious dictators and can’t be divorced from that fact.
Full disclosure, I am not a religious scholar and disdain all religions pretty equally (fuck Mormons in particular though)
One could argue that the blue-haired liberal feminists are also a product of their culture.
Just to be clear, I’m not disagreeing that Islam has some problematic views the same as any religion. But we shouldn’t strive to control women in order to free them from control.
I am with Grimy on this one; I feel the same level of creeped out when I see Pentecostal women in skirts as I do when I see women in burkas. There’s nothing inherently oppressive about skirts but when you see a group of people who are clearly part of a culture that uses them for oppression, whether that individuals oppressed or not, it’s impossible for me to not see it in a different context and be reminded of all the bullshit in the world.
And your assuming there’s absolutely no cultural or family pressure. What I’m assuming is much more likely, so stop assuming this person is some freedom loving feminist that wears the burka because she wants to.
I know we all look like women hating bigots from your high horse but you might actually be the one wrong her. In any case, it’s still a symbol of oppression that stems from a patriarchal system of oppression.
It’s like seeing someone wearing an Amazon T-shirt and assuming he’s an anarchist. Sure, everything is possible but it isn’t the likeliest assumption.
You do not liberate people by forcing your choices upon them. You are entitled to believe that the garb of their choosing is a tool to oppress them or is symbolic of their oppression or that they haven’t really “chosen it”. But your belief shouldn’t be forced upon them.
If the liberation of women, Muslim or otherwise, is important to you, focus your energy on endeavours which provide community, that offer (voluntary!) education resources on a variety of important topics, that provide safe spaces for women to explore difficult choices and escape difficult situations.
It varies by instance. The instances that liberals decry as the “Takie Triad” (lemmygrad.ml, lemmy.ml, and hexbear.net) are much better about combatting Islamophobia. They’re much better about combatting Western chauvanism in general, really.
They’re terrible about making space for women though and incredibly caustic. I just don’t find it comfortable to be in those spaces even if I agree with a lot of the opinions there.
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You have no idea why these particular women choose to dress this way and it’s presumptuous to assume it’s only due to oppression.
Asserting that you know better about what kind of clothing they should wear makes you just as oppressive.
The burqua is kind of a symbol of oppression. Even if they are just wearing out of habit and no one is forcing them to, the whole dress stems from a system of oppression.
I don’t think I have a right to tell them to not wear it, just as much as their family/culture doesn’t have a right to force them to wear it, but let’s not pretend it’s just any other garment, it comes with a lot of baggage.
The same can be said of a bikini.
You also don’t know why these women are wearing it. You don’t know that their family is forcing them to wear it.
Assuming you know better is the problem here.
I think his point was even if they themselves converted to Islam and choose to wear the burqua completely on their own accord, it doesn’t stop it from being a symbol of oppression. IIRC there is nothing in the Quaran about being covered in this way, it’s purely about fascistic control from religious dictators and can’t be divorced from that fact.
Full disclosure, I am not a religious scholar and disdain all religions pretty equally (fuck Mormons in particular though)
Women are allowed to be religious if they want.
One could argue that the blue-haired liberal feminists are also a product of their culture.
Just to be clear, I’m not disagreeing that Islam has some problematic views the same as any religion. But we shouldn’t strive to control women in order to free them from control.
I am with Grimy on this one; I feel the same level of creeped out when I see Pentecostal women in skirts as I do when I see women in burkas. There’s nothing inherently oppressive about skirts but when you see a group of people who are clearly part of a culture that uses them for oppression, whether that individuals oppressed or not, it’s impossible for me to not see it in a different context and be reminded of all the bullshit in the world.
There are 2 women in this picture.
What does that have to do with what I said?
You’re judging 2 women who went to vote. Like you know everything about them and why they wear this.
I’m not judging anybody, did you even read what I said?
And your assuming there’s absolutely no cultural or family pressure. What I’m assuming is much more likely, so stop assuming this person is some freedom loving feminist that wears the burka because she wants to.
I know we all look like women hating bigots from your high horse but you might actually be the one wrong her. In any case, it’s still a symbol of oppression that stems from a patriarchal system of oppression.
It’s like seeing someone wearing an Amazon T-shirt and assuming he’s an anarchist. Sure, everything is possible but it isn’t the likeliest assumption.
I’m not going to get into a debate about choice feminism with you on this topic.
These two women don’t owe you any explanation for why they dress this way.
Well then…shut up
You first.
This is such a tired debate.
You do not liberate people by forcing your choices upon them. You are entitled to believe that the garb of their choosing is a tool to oppress them or is symbolic of their oppression or that they haven’t really “chosen it”. But your belief shouldn’t be forced upon them.
If the liberation of women, Muslim or otherwise, is important to you, focus your energy on endeavours which provide community, that offer (voluntary!) education resources on a variety of important topics, that provide safe spaces for women to explore difficult choices and escape difficult situations.
They are so incredibly oppressed and they can only be saved from this oppression by having a white male with European ancestry bomb their house.
“Brown men are oppressing them! They should listen to this white man!”
I was surprised by the Islamophobia when I joined Lemmy. I’m not surprised anymore when users like usualsuspect pop up.
It varies by instance. The instances that liberals decry as the “Takie Triad” (lemmygrad.ml, lemmy.ml, and hexbear.net) are much better about combatting Islamophobia. They’re much better about combatting Western chauvanism in general, really.
They’re terrible about making space for women though and incredibly caustic. I just don’t find it comfortable to be in those spaces even if I agree with a lot of the opinions there.
This is all true.
I don’t recognize their username but am surprised that they don’t seem to be German
Oh look, more comments judging what a woman is wearing as well!
I didn’t even notice that haha.
Once a woman wears too little and is on OnlyFans. Then the woman wears too much and is oppressed.
Usualsuspect cannot make up their mind.
I’d guess, based on their instance, likely living in Canada, if not Canadian