Look, I actually have to spend my time around Americans. I dislike them probably more than a lot of people who say stuff like in [https://www.reddit.com/r/TankieTheDeprogram/s/eHww4UALHm](this thread). But it’s not out of lack of trying.

But that’s besides the point. No other country’s people gets treated this way. And no, I’m not going to say I’m more oppressed than people in the global south or whatever. In fact a lot of psychological problems result from the fact that I’m privileged to be in the global north.

But Americans are so often…dismissed. That’s the only term i can come up with. But everyone talks about it in such idealist matter. They always talk individuals or idealism or whatever. The closest to material analysis is “the proletariat’s material conditions are closer aligned to the imperialist Bourgeoisie.” But that doesn’t just apply to Americans.

But, look. Why doesn’t any other people get treated this way? Genuinely. I don’t think Stalin sat down and said “well Germany lost a major world war and went through multiple economic crises and still hasn’t had a socialist revolution. So obviously it’s a lost cause, kill all of them.” Japan and South Korea are never treated this way, despite being very arguably in similar boats. And if we want to talk about material conditions, what about Indonesia or Iran or Cambodia or so many other nations? They haven’t had socialist revolutions yet despite their material conditions, so does that mean these people are useless treatlerites too?

I’m sorry. I know, again, we’re in the imperial core, we’re privileged. I don’t know what part of my mentally ill brain it is, but it’s just that the logic completely fails for me and that gives me anxiety, because reasons. Not just that, but the actual oppression of the communist and self determination movements here are also just ignored.

  • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
    131·
    21 days ago

    This is not a serious argument. Lots of people don’t have the means to simply up and leave. There is also value to continuing to fight from inside the belly of the beast. If nothing else, those on the inside can do far more damage to the machinery of empire through sabotage and direct action than those from outside can do.

    This does however take the willingness to take great risks and put your life and what little is left of your freedom on the line. It takes a recognition that a) change through reform is fundamentally impossible in the core and social democratic concessions serve the purpose of pacifying and bribing the population with the spoils of imperial violence, and b) that a revolution in the core will not be possible until conditions get much, much worse, and until then you are simply a “man on the inside” for the revolutionary forces in the global south whose duty it is to agitate the imperial core population against their own government, to sabotage as much as possible the machinery of empire and chip away at its power to suppress revolutionary and anti-colonial movements in those places where most of the revolutionary potential exists right now.

    • MissGibraltar59@lemmygrad.ml
      71·
      21 days ago

      With all due respect, come back to me when the American left will actually become something threatening. Other comments in this thread already explained how there is no real movement that can do real or any damage at all.

      • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
        16·
        21 days ago

        The “American left” as a whole is non-threatening to the empire by design. But there is potential for groups such as Palestine Action to form and operate clandestinely in the imperial core.

        • MissGibraltar59@lemmygrad.ml
          61·
          21 days ago

          I understand the importance of internal agents who can serve as sabotage. I am willing to listen and understand, what exactly is the potential of these groups? Are they arming themselves? Are they organizing militians or building encrypted networks?

          • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
            8·
            21 days ago

            It’s a learning process. As the state’s repression increases and the illusion of being able to achieve change peacefully dissolves, groups will have to learn to adopt more sophisticated methods and more militant methods.

            People will respond to the change in material conditions.

            • Maeve@lemmygrad.ml
              4·
              21 days ago

              People will respond to the change in material conditions.

              I hope. I’m thinking I probably need to get more urban, but financial constraints and age deterioration are seriously messing with my creative solution process. But I seriously need to leave the Deep South because regular work hours turned out not to be for reasons I’ve discussed elsewhere. Also our jobs market is decimated.

            • MissGibraltar59@lemmygrad.ml
              52·
              21 days ago

              I hope that you are right. I also hope that whatever few righteous people America still has, I hope they won’t let themselves be consumed by the vile selfish culture of that kingdom of evil. This whole thread exists because one of them feels like they aren’t getting anough respect from the rest of us(no disrespect to OP), while the struggle is never about that. American people are immoral and consumed by individualism and greed, I wish all of you that remain free from that rot the best.

        • MissGibraltar59@lemmygrad.ml
          71·
          21 days ago

          It’s great and sustained, rendering the whole thing useless with no threat to anything of status quo. I am aware of the situation, this is why my stance is what it is.