• Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 days ago

    You’re deeply unserious if you think Marx doesn’t count as a socialist, and only consider late-stage communism and anarchism to be socialist.

    • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 days ago

      if you think Marx

      Marx can be forgiven for being wrong. He didn’t have an entire century’s worth of hindsight to inform him - unlike the modern-day personality cultists that claim him (like you).

      consider late-stage communism and anarchism to be socialist.

      Why do you have a problem with the working class controlling the means of production, (alleged) “socialist?”

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        11 days ago

        Between capitalism and communism comes socialism, where the working class controls the means of production but there isn’t classless or stateless society yet. Simple. Communism doesn’t have a working class, because it’s classless.

        • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 days ago

          where the working class controls the means of production but there isn’t classless or stateless society yet

          Ie, you understand perfectly well that your ideology precludes socialism even being possibile.

          So, again… why do you have a problem with the working class controlling the means of production?

          Perhaps that’s the wrong question?

          Maybe it should go… why do you despise the working class so much?

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            7
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            11 days ago

            No, I’m just not of the fringe belief that a state run by the working classes where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy is somehow capitalist. I love the working class, that’s why I support the socialist system the working classes of Cuba fought and died to establish and protect, rather than telling them that they aren’t “pure” enough while defending themselves from the US Empire.

            • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              11 days ago

              that a state run by the working classes

              Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - and you have provided zero.

              I love the working class,

              Really? Then why do you peddle an ideology that preclude the very possibility of the working class controlling the means of production?

              Or do you “love” the working class in the same psychotic way that the aristocracy proclaimed to “love” serfs and peasants?

                • masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  11 days ago

                  Cuban democracy is comprehensive,

                  And?

                  Extolling the ways in which the Cuban state manages electoral processes is supposed to prove… what?

                  public ownership

                  You seem to be assuming that the word “public” is going to be doing all the heavy lifting for you. It’s not.

                  Does the cuban state control the means of production in Cuba or does it not?

                  • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    11 days ago

                    The United Kingdom has a monarch, is it not capitalist?

                    Are political-economic systems something that switch instantly from one pure form to the next, or are they epochal changes stretching over hundreds of years?

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    11 days ago

                    The state is run by the working class, it isn’t outside of class struggle but within it. The working class directs production, produces to suit the needs of the people, and maintains a state to protect themselves from imperialists and sabateurs. You’re trying to redefine socialism entirely.