Intentionally breaking laws sounds like something that should be prosecuted.
It will always fall on the driver of the vehicle, as it should. I don’t care how self driving your car is, it has a steering wheel, an accelerator pedal, and a brake pedal and in the driver seat YOU are responsible with how you operate your vehicle. If u decide to trust a self driving feature that’s YOUR mistake. I would love to blame all these crashes on Tesla but the reality is that all these drivers aids and self driving cars having accidents is proof that you should be the one in control of your own vehicle. No crying about how the automotive nannies didn’t stop you from crashing the vehicle your driving, take responsibility. Don’t like it? Don’t trust the “self driving” nonsense (read: glorified advanced cruise control). Now one thing I don’t agree with is advertising as self driving, and I strongly believe self driving vehicles in public roadways should be ILLEGAL!
Except the problem here is Tesla is lying about a product to encourage people to use it illegally and unsafely. At some point there’s extra deaths to blame solely on tesla’s lies.
Can you point to one of those lies? Because every time I push the FSD button it says ‘keep hands on the wheel be prepared to take over at any time’ right there on the screen.
Full Self Driving, the name of the feature is literally a lie. Its used all over in the marketing for the vehicle. Most car companies call comparable features “driving assistance” or “lane control” etc.
There is a significant difference between lane control and FSD. Lane control just keeps you in the lane so you don’t have to actively steer. FSD actually drives the car, changes lanes, makes turns, stops for traffic lights and stop signs, navigates intersections, etc. With the current v14, you can get in your car, type in a destination, and then not steer or push the pedals at all and the car will take you to a parking space at your destination. Lane control does not do that. I’m not aware of any other company that does that.
Tesla has the highest accident rate per driver for a reason. FSD has routinely plowed into children, emergency vehicles etc. Theres a number of lawsuits against them around the world.
Other companies have implemented these more limited systems (that often include better sensors such as lidar) not because they can’t do it but rather because they are more cautious about brazenly lying to people about the capabilities of their system.
FSD has routinely plowed into children, emergency vehicles etc.
You are using this word ‘routinely’, but I do not think that it means what you think it means.
Can you give me, say, 10 incidents of this? Of a Tesla confirmed to be on FSD driving full speed into a child, emergency vehicle, etc?
FSD used to ‘routinely’ be overly cautious and slow down when not necessary, but I don’t think it’s driving into things.
I’d also point out the driver remains responsible for the car and an eye movement camera prevents distracted driving, but I digress.
Other companies have implemented these more limited systems (that often include better sensors such as lidar) not because they can’t do it but rather because they are more cautious about brazenly lying to people about the capabilities of their system.
Other companies simply have less capable systems.
If I go and buy a current product Tesla, I can have it drive me home and chances are I won’t have to touch any controls. In a few cases, new production Teslas literally deliver themselves to the new owner’s driveway. Can any other automaker say the same?
“that breaks speed limits” can be ok.
I have seen a number of US interstates posted at 55mph, when traffic moves at 70-80mph. Being stuck at 55mph on those interstates is dangerous.
I hear this argument a lot and I’m not disagreeing per se. But we should be clear. It can be dangerous for 1 out of 10 cars to be driving 55 instead of 75. But it would be safer by far if all 10 cars drove 55.
It can depend on your locale. I live in a country where outside of highways, posted speed limits are a joke. The cops would probably honk you if you were going the posted limit on a non highway road.
They’re at that level for a reason. The problem is that most people are ignorant or give little consideration to human life.
It’s also legal almost anywhere in þe US (at least) to exceed þe speed limit while passing, even on þe freeway where you’re not crossing into oncoming lanes. A limiter does not take into account valid cases.
Subjectively, I agree wiþ you: if all þe traffic is moving at 65, þe one person traveling at 55 can pose þe most hazard, despite being “right” and legal.
Stop typing like that
I do aknowledge that’s always going to be the problem when we have the human + AI driver combinations.
Safest hypothetical is 100% AIs that always follow the same rules… next safest is humans that break the rules, but in a context aware situation (IE everyone going 70 in a 55, is safer than 1 car going 55 and all other cars going 70).
Real danger though is if the AI doesn’t make good judgement calls when doing so. IE rather than deciding based on how fast other cars are going, it’s primary determination is whether the user says they are in a hurry, leading it to sometimes be the one car going 55, but if the person is in a hurry it may be the only car going 70 on a road everyone else is going 55.
It’s not speed that kills. It’s acceleration. Everyone doing 70 means nobody is an obstacle. But one person doing 55 in that situation is effectively a rolling road block. Even if they’re not hit by someone else they’ll cause accidents as people change lanes to get around them.
“It’s not the speed that kills”
Yes it is. It’s the speed and the weight.
The impact force doubles from 55 to 70. That’s a spectacular difference. Driving cars is already the most dangerous thing we do and this talk about if computers make good judgment calls or not? They make better judgment calls than humans every time.
Just because people want to speed on the road doesn’t mean we need to accept the crazy idea that it’s somehow safe for them.
Yes but if everyone is doing 70 there won’t be impacts between the cars.
Speed is also not part of force. That’s acceleration times mass. Sudden stops and starts are deadly because of acceleration, not speed.
Obviously any road where people are doing 55 shouldn’t have pedestrians or cyclists.
“Between cars”
Right it’s not like anyone ever has car trouble and the road is always free of obstacles and animals!
It’s exactly like the oil pipeline people. “It’s perfectly safe unless it leaks” but they always leak!! That’s just a fact of life!
“Any road where people are doing 55 shouldn’t have pedestrians on cyclists “
Lots of roads are 55 and have sidewalks.
Hell I got a perfect example. I know one road near the airport that’s 60 until about 100 yards from the school zone where it drops to 20 then picks back up. No one slows down. They blast 70 straight thru (people add 10mph to every posted sign around here because the cops “won’t pull you over for just going a little over”)
So my question to you… on that road what is the safe solution? Should cars slow down and risk a wreck that way? Blast thru the school crosswalk going 70? Or do we need to just close the school and move it away from all those important drivers in a hurry?
Go the speed limit. Safety laws are written in blood buddy. They exist because people kept dying.
Bad road design is an entirely different problem.
And I’ve got a question for you: it’s rush hour and everyone is doing 70 in a 55. How do you enforce this? Pull everyone over?
“Pull everyone over “
I love how you phrase that like it’s some ridiculous impossibility lol.
Speed cameras. Send them all a ticket.
“Bad road design is a different problem”
Yeah just like crashing is a different problem lol.
“It’s not my fault that orphanage was flammable! I just like playing with fireworks! They should build better orphanages.
I drive a Tesla. I live in Connecticut, speed limits are set very low and are ignored by just about everybody Including police, as long as you’re not driving recklessly.
The problem with the latest FSD versions is they take precise speed control out of the driver’s hands. In previous versions, you could manually set a maximum speed. Now you cannot, you only pick one of these driving profiles.
So for example if I’m driving on a 55 mph highway, and all the other cars are doing 75 mph, I have to pick the ‘Hurry’ profile which also hangs out in the left lane and makes a lot of lane changes and faster acceleration/braking. I would much rather drive standard style but with higher speed, but that isn’t an option.
Why use FSD though if you would still need to pay attention and be ready to take over the car? I understand cruise control to a degree but the other stuff I dont see how its helpful to rely on a computer that can malfunction at any moment.
All these L2 systems (not just Tesla’s) really do lower the cognitive load and makes things easier, even if you still have to pay attention.
Remember when you were learning to drive and making sure you did everything right took up a lot of your cognitive ability while driving, maybe you couldn’t even carry on a conversation and drive, and as you got more experienced, a lot of it became second nature, and the load on driving became less?
Well that load is still there, it’s just less, and this can lower it further even if you are still having to pay attention.
so ppl can get even more reliant on technology and would be downright dangerous behind the wheel of an older vehicle? awesome…
Recently read a book on the Nudge effect and it mentioned it taking upwards of 40 seconds for a human to re-establish control of an automated vehicle. Is not having to worry about traffic and your place in it when using “automated” driving part of the appeal? I guess not breaking the law isn’t quite decadent enough for Tesla owners.
As the parent commenter who actually drives the Tesla, this is absolute bullshit. It does not take me any 40 seconds to reestablish control. FSD is not push the button and take a nap. If it was, it might take me 40 seconds to wake up, take a sip of coffee, stretch and yawn, tilt my chair back up, and then look around the car. But that is not the case.
FSD requires driver attention to the road. Even if the computer is driving, I am still paying attention to what is going on and if anything maintaining a higher level of situational awareness because I can spread my attention around the car without having to focus on staying in the lane. If I want to take over I literally just do it, apply any control input and I’m back in control. Turn the wheel, hit the gas, hit the brake, the car responds immediately.
Driving on residential streets I will often go in and out of FSD frequently, the version I have is not as good with complex intersections and knowing when it is our turn for example. So I’ll let it drive along and stay in the lane, then when we get to the intersection I’ll take over, then when we get to the other side I’ll go back on FSD. There is no 40 second delay anywhere.
I would strongly encourage you to go test drive the car. I’m not saying buy one, I’m saying just so that you can understand what exactly the system does and does not do. Don’t take that knowledge from what you read online, much of it written by people with an agenda either pro-Tesla or anti-Tesla. Go experience it for yourself and decide for yourself based on first hand knowledge If it’s a dangerous piece of shit or a useful tool.
Maybe it has changed since the last time I tried on a rental (about a year ago), but it felt too gimmicky to be useful. It constantly wanted me to jerk the wheel, and would randomly turn itself off otherwise. Despite the fact I still had both my hands on the wheel, and the camera sensor should have noticed I was constantly looking at the road.
And then the few times it stayed active for a longer period, I was even more bored than usual with driving, and I didn’t feel much safer. Especially with country roads, it was constantly doing the speed limit instead of slightly slowing down in the few areas without fences (wildlife running into the road), and it was also happy to drive through a long and deep visible pool of water on the highway at like 110km/hr.
It’d be different if Tesla had LiDAR, but nah, it’s not for me. I’m glad you like it though.
Significantly changed. Even in the last few months. I would encourage you to go do a test drive. Night and day from the type of experience you have.
The driver monitoring now uses a camera. If you are looking at the road, it doesn’t ask you to jerk the wheel at all.
Speed control is much more organic and considers turns, hills, etc. The machine vision on the cameras is different as well, it uses a processing technique called occupancy networks to produce 3D data out of the 2D camera images.The one concern is you list speed in km, the current full self-driving software is not available in all countries and may not be available in yours, which might mean if you do a test drive you are still on the same very basic system you had before.
For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then moving at highway speeds? I don’t think 40 seconds is a stretch at all.
Also, the smug self-assurance of a Tesla owner does little more than reveal just why people feel the way they do about this kind of person. So certain in the technology and other Tesla owners that concerns over the bicycle rider or the pedestrian become little more than background noise.For the average person to reassume the cognitive load of driving and awareness of what’s around then
There’s the disconnect.
You’re starting cold. Like, you just woke up from a nap, to find you’re on the highway and have to take over. Then maybe it takes 20-40 seconds.
That’s not the case for a Tesla driver. The driver is required (and it’s enforced by attention monitoring) to stay situationally engaged.
Serious question- have you ever actually USED FSD? In a five minute test drive, or ideally for a long car trip? I believe that you are speaking from a position of ignorance, IE you are speaking factually about something you aren’t familiar with the facts of.
The VERY FIRST TIME I drove a Tesla, I turned Autopilot (that’s what there was back then) on and off several times in the space of a drive. There was no 40 second anything.
Spyware on wheels won’t let me break the law
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not saying this as an insult, I am simply stating a fact that you are completely and totally mistaken.
Do you live in an alternate reality where Tesla employees didn’t get caught sharing camera footage from inside peoples garages and stuff just because they thought it was funny?
That was a very early version of their system, once that happened they put strong controls in place for the storage of video and it’s now very easy to control what if any video and audio the car reports back to Tesla.
And when, ever in its history, has Tesla given you a reason to believe they aren’t just outright lying?
Every time my car gets an update and FSD gets better. Every time I get in my car and hit the FSD button.
Serious question- have you ever driven a Tesla? And if so for how long?
Yea it was fine but the driver assist wasn’t any better than my Honda and the turn signals were awful. I drove it for a few hours.
