Eh, I think there’s a decent amount of intellectual overlap between authoritarian right wingers and authoritarian left wingers. They will both prioritize state control over people.
You messed up the “don’t use variations of the word” step.
What do you mean by
“Established authorities” and
“conventionalism”?
How does a “high degree” of submission look different from a “low degree”?
What constitutes “aggressive” defence in relation to regular defence and why is it definitionally authoritarian to defend something “aggressively”?
I don’t think you understand the word totalitarian or it’s variations. You probably understand authoritarianism, but you have a vested interest in not understanding it.
Try doing some reading, authoritarian personality is well studied.
Hey, here’s a textbook example of the second bullet point I listed above: aggressive defense of what are considered the established authorities.
I provided reading on the psychological profile of an authoritarian individual, whether they be followers or leaders. Cow here immediately jumped in with an essay critiquing Arendt, who is neither here nor there. Matter of fact, Altemeyer focuses on Canadian and American authoritarians, because he was a Canadian psychologist. I don’t think he even mentions the Soviet union once in his book.
I don’t know if cow here even took the time to understand that I was talking about individual psychology before defending the state. Aggressive defense of established authority.
“Aggressive defense?” I linked an article questioning the very concept of “totalitarianism,” and said that much of the critique could be applied to the idea of “authoritarianism.” Did you read the article? The point isn’t the Soviet Union, the point is the very concept of “authoritarianism” and what that does or does not mean.
Alright so “agressive defence of established authorities” includes providing literature to understand the concept youre discussing? How is this agressive and what established authority is being defended? The general concept of “the state”?
If “providing reading material to further understanding” in any context related to the mere concept of “the state” is enough, then by your own definition you are an authoritarian.
No, I understand it, which is why I am asking you to define it. Because any actual definition is one that is either so broad as to describe all states (like yours does) or so specific as to be redundant because one could just say the name of the specific state or institution one was thinking of.
Lemmy.mlis more broadly federated than piefed.social, which also has a head developer that made lists of leftists to permaban. Being a communist on the English-speaking internet is already a dissenting view, we cannot escape non-communist viewpoints like non-communists can. Thus, echo-chambers to actually exist must affirm widespread positions while shutting out any dissent, which in the west means liberalism.
I guess it can be true for many people but i heartly disagree that it’s all people, for example I don’t belive to be in a eco-chamber, i interact with all sort of peope which half is prolly socialist people but the other half is all sort of ideologies (especially conservative and border-line fascist ones)
Can you view, say, Hexbear.net or Lemmygrad.ml from your instance? You may get some subsection of socialists but not all that exist on Lemmy if your instance blocks them.
Yeah i can see both of 'em, or well, i can search them and view users so i think my admins did not defederate; do you know any tool i can use to see if my admins defederated?
Nah, i just thought it was funny that you followed exactly the type of stereotypes about the instance you are on
To be clear: i was on .ml too once, i just moved after that because people were de-federating from it and i wanted to use a more local instance (feddit.it is Italian and i am Italian)
I, too, like to dismiss people based on my preconceived notions of their character rather than what they write, and then crawl back into my hole like a snivelling little coward when i am called out
That’s something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, that’s so hard to come by. On the other hand the blind following of concepts like Lenin’s democratic centralism and Mao’s defence of state oppression, makes it difficult to convince with, along with the silent support for capitalist autocracies like the Kremlin and Xi.
I’m currently reading the Red Book from Mao and there some parts that are needlessly dangerous that use crusaders logic to defend atrocities for a promised future.
That’s something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, that’s so hard to come by.
this is exactly why i was originally drawn to browse the hexbear.net/c/news. living in the US the corporate run media maintains pretty tight control over narratives. i prefer to know as much as i can of the entire picture and decide for myself.
none of the orgs i’m in are even dem cent. it’s a framework for organizing which i think fits a particular type of moment, but is not without its issues outside of those moments.
Just to spare you some sanity as I’ve told others – and you’re probably already well aware – most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. In other words, they literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sock-puppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don’t waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish, but many of them get a paycheck from dragging you into comments (if aren’t actual zealots themselves). You never know. though – it could just come down to them thinking, “Hammer & Sickle cool!” or something.
I’m all for exploring other ideologies; but that tends to stop short of ends-justify-means utopic fantasy whereby many are oppressed; when there are double-standards when geopolitically-expedient for the likes of what is occurring in Gaza, but conveniently not for what is happening in Ukraine, to Uyghurs, to Tibetan Buddhist monks, to Hong Kong democratic protesters, to Taiwanese sovereignty in blatant imperial conquest.
Yeah it would definitely help to know who downvoted or upvoted some blatantly heinous comments.
Having now been fodder to a couple of the 50c army I’m now much less inclined towards the label of Socialism so I’m not sure for the overall motives other than Cult purity.
I’ll be looking for a mbin or piefed instance now 👋
Oh no I’m sorry. My vision isn’t what it used to be and it’s tiny on my screen lol. That’s funny though
Honestly, I don’t have any good recommendations except to say that over the years and having kind of visited most of the points of the political spectrum I’ve started to settle down here. That when looking for something better that has also been realized somewhere in the world already, I keep coming back to the Nordic Model. Perfect? Maybe not. Best we’ve seen? By the data, I contend yes. Moreover it doesn’t seem like we have to engage in this ends-justify-means pursuit of an unrealized dream like I mentioned before.
“blind following” Yeah alright, sorry for reading something, relating it to what I know, investigating its claims, find them to be well-founded and the arguments to stand up to reason, and therefore I decide to incorporate it into my worldview. I suppose a much better method would be to read falsehoods written by someone the CIA decided to fund or whoever you want.
Great then you would remember the blatant lies he drivels about needing an interim autocracy for a short period to transform to communism where the proletariat have ownership… oh but wait jinx we still need an overseer to fight off any imperialist attacks. The entire theory relies on the same logic of kings.
Then you have the heinous bloodlust of the killing off the bourgeois, I mean he puts it in nicer terms: saying that people of a certain capitalistic idealism must be punished and removed and that the bourgeois will stab you in the back if you make him a pauper and give him a penny. As if the bourgeois are a different race and must be eradicated.
But the proletariat will definitely have thier communist democracy just under the confines of what I want. It’s using the bait of democracy to reel in a bad kings replacement.
I wouldn’t consider folks from .ml to be dangerous tho - they are simply a book club that is being mean to people on internet.
Right-wingers, who don’t touch grass, on the other hand, are far more dangerous - just remember QAnon, this shit was started by some 4chan troll.
The US State certainly seems to think communist organizers are dangerous.
Ironically I don’t think anyone considered 4chan very dangerous until the whole QAnon shit.
It is called “Memetic warfare” or “5th-generation warfare” and it is as real as MOABs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_warfare
https://www.lineofdeparture.army.mil/Journals/Gray-Space/Archive/2026-Edition/5th-Generation-Warfare-Already-at/
And you think the people arguing against the establishment position are the people with enough resources to do that a significant scale?
Eh, I think there’s a decent amount of intellectual overlap between authoritarian right wingers and authoritarian left wingers. They will both prioritize state control over people.
Define “authoritarian” without using variations of the word or variations of “totalitarian”.
Three criteria:
You messed up the “don’t use variations of the word” step.
What do you mean by
“Established authorities” and
“conventionalism”?
How does a “high degree” of submission look different from a “low degree”?
What constitutes “aggressive” defence in relation to regular defence and why is it definitionally authoritarian to defend something “aggressively”?
I don’t think you understand the word totalitarian or it’s variations. You probably understand authoritarianism, but you have a vested interest in not understanding it.
Try doing some reading, authoritarian personality is well studied.
theauthoritarians.org
As a counter, I think you should consider reading Towards a Critique of the Category of “Totalitarianism.” Losurdo touches on much of the problems with theories of “authoritarianism” and “totalitarianism.”
Interesting read, thanks.
@BanMeFromPosting@lemmy.ml
Hey, here’s a textbook example of the second bullet point I listed above: aggressive defense of what are considered the established authorities.
I provided reading on the psychological profile of an authoritarian individual, whether they be followers or leaders. Cow here immediately jumped in with an essay critiquing Arendt, who is neither here nor there. Matter of fact, Altemeyer focuses on Canadian and American authoritarians, because he was a Canadian psychologist. I don’t think he even mentions the Soviet union once in his book.
I don’t know if cow here even took the time to understand that I was talking about individual psychology before defending the state. Aggressive defense of established authority.
“Aggressive defense?” I linked an article questioning the very concept of “totalitarianism,” and said that much of the critique could be applied to the idea of “authoritarianism.” Did you read the article? The point isn’t the Soviet Union, the point is the very concept of “authoritarianism” and what that does or does not mean.
Alright so “agressive defence of established authorities” includes providing literature to understand the concept youre discussing? How is this agressive and what established authority is being defended? The general concept of “the state”?
If “providing reading material to further understanding” in any context related to the mere concept of “the state” is enough, then by your own definition you are an authoritarian.
No, I understand it, which is why I am asking you to define it. Because any actual definition is one that is either so broad as to describe all states (like yours does) or so specific as to be redundant because one could just say the name of the specific state or institution one was thinking of.
This. I was going to ask if MAGA are dangerous.
Information bubbles are dangerous. Tribalism is dangerous.
The antidotes are inclusivity and critical thinking
Right, and you’re definitely not in any sort of echo chamber.
“This surely can’t be…” i though while clicking on your profile
“...@lemmy.ml”
Welp, name checks out ig, i didn’t realize it was a troll
Lemmy.ml is more broadly federated than piefed.social, which also has a head developer that made lists of leftists to permaban. Being a communist on the English-speaking internet is already a dissenting view, we cannot escape non-communist viewpoints like non-communists can. Thus, echo-chambers to actually exist must affirm widespread positions while shutting out any dissent, which in the west means liberalism.
I guess it can be true for many people but i heartly disagree that it’s all people, for example I don’t belive to be in a eco-chamber, i interact with all sort of peope which half is prolly socialist people but the other half is all sort of ideologies (especially conservative and border-line fascist ones)
Can you view, say, Hexbear.net or Lemmygrad.ml from your instance? You may get some subsection of socialists but not all that exist on Lemmy if your instance blocks them.
Yeah i can see both of 'em, or well, i can search them and view users so i think my admins did not defederate; do you know any tool i can use to see if my admins defederated?
I, too, love to dismiss people based on my preconceived notions of their character rather than what they write.
Nah, i just thought it was funny that you followed exactly the type of stereotypes about the instance you are on
To be clear: i was on .ml too once, i just moved after that because people were de-federating from it and i wanted to use a more local instance (feddit.it is Italian and i am Italian)
I, too, like to dismiss people based on my preconceived notions of their character rather than what they write, and then crawl back into my hole like a snivelling little coward when i am called out
The fuck? Be less acidic and maybe people will take you seriously.
That’s something I actually like about .ml it allows me to find literature on important current topics without the capitalist mindset, that’s so hard to come by. On the other hand the blind following of concepts like Lenin’s democratic centralism and Mao’s defence of state oppression, makes it difficult to convince with, along with the silent support for capitalist autocracies like the Kremlin and Xi.
I’m currently reading the Red Book from Mao and there some parts that are needlessly dangerous that use crusaders logic to defend atrocities for a promised future.
this is exactly why i was originally drawn to browse the hexbear.net/c/news. living in the US the corporate run media maintains pretty tight control over narratives. i prefer to know as much as i can of the entire picture and decide for myself.
none of the orgs i’m in are even dem cent. it’s a framework for organizing which i think fits a particular type of moment, but is not without its issues outside of those moments.
Just to spare you some sanity as I’ve told others – and you’re probably already well aware – most of these tankies who have a hard-on for and simp on behalf of Eastern Authoritarian genocidal apologists have a tendency to be a part of the 50 Cent Party or some derivative troll farm. In other words, they literally get paid to post comments; meanwhile Lemmy itself has limited control over sock-puppet account duplication. Just know there are sane people on here and don’t waste your time too much. Stay on message in the first comment or two and let them run their mouths if they wish, but many of them get a paycheck from dragging you into comments (if aren’t actual zealots themselves). You never know. though – it could just come down to them thinking, “Hammer & Sickle cool!” or something.
I’m all for exploring other ideologies; but that tends to stop short of ends-justify-means utopic fantasy whereby many are oppressed; when there are double-standards when geopolitically-expedient for the likes of what is occurring in Gaza, but conveniently not for what is happening in Ukraine, to Uyghurs, to Tibetan Buddhist monks, to Hong Kong democratic protesters, to Taiwanese sovereignty in blatant imperial conquest.
Thanks ❤️
Yeah it would definitely help to know who downvoted or upvoted some blatantly heinous comments.
Having now been fodder to a couple of the 50c army I’m now much less inclined towards the label of Socialism so I’m not sure for the overall motives other than Cult purity.
I’ll be looking for a mbin or piefed instance now 👋
https://rdctd.pro/defense-against-cult-control-tactics/
Sadly I fear that’s part of their intention (we further cannot rule out far-right nazis masquerading as leftists in order to muddy the well).
Though I completely get your concerns. Have you looked much into Social Democracy?
I take it you haven’t seen my red rose profile picture 😉
But no not as literature, I thought I’d get the foundation of Marx but took a detour on Mao do you have any recommendations?
Oh no I’m sorry. My vision isn’t what it used to be and it’s tiny on my screen lol. That’s funny though
Honestly, I don’t have any good recommendations except to say that over the years and having kind of visited most of the points of the political spectrum I’ve started to settle down here. That when looking for something better that has also been realized somewhere in the world already, I keep coming back to the Nordic Model. Perfect? Maybe not. Best we’ve seen? By the data, I contend yes. Moreover it doesn’t seem like we have to engage in this ends-justify-means pursuit of an unrealized dream like I mentioned before.
“blind following” Yeah alright, sorry for reading something, relating it to what I know, investigating its claims, find them to be well-founded and the arguments to stand up to reason, and therefore I decide to incorporate it into my worldview. I suppose a much better method would be to read falsehoods written by someone the CIA decided to fund or whoever you want.
Have you read the Red Book?
Maos quotations?
Yes
Then yes. Been a bunch of years though and the translation seemed shoddy.
Great then you would remember the blatant lies he drivels about needing an interim autocracy for a short period to transform to communism where the proletariat have ownership… oh but wait jinx we still need an overseer to fight off any imperialist attacks. The entire theory relies on the same logic of kings.
Then you have the heinous bloodlust of the killing off the bourgeois, I mean he puts it in nicer terms: saying that people of a certain capitalistic idealism must be punished and removed and that the bourgeois will stab you in the back if you make him a pauper and give him a penny. As if the bourgeois are a different race and must be eradicated.
But the proletariat will definitely have thier communist democracy just under the confines of what I want. It’s using the bait of democracy to reel in a bad kings replacement.
This would probably be really sound if the only thing I’d ever read was Mao’s quotations and I didn’t have any historical knowledge either.
Here’s a cool video for you to argue against
Here’s some words for you to misunderstand