The problem is that it didn’t carry on further. The beginnings of most ideologies sound fine but it’s the reality and the shunning of “the other” where you start to see the horrors.
Yeah, the whole thing is that most of this sounds good until you have to be part of it as it plays out. It just gets worse, and worse, and the people become more, and more, polarized about the situation. The problems with the ideas, which should have been obvious from the beginning, start to take effect in ways that finally start to hurt the people it was proposed to support. Then the system goes into collapse.
See, and even this could lead into a fantastic lesson about how fascism is really seductive in these vague terms, especially to help clean up a lot of the questions of “well why didn’t people fight back” that teens have when learning about Italy and Germany pre-WWII.
i can look back on every thing that happened to me in the past and it’s clear what was wrong. but when you are living through it, you can’t see that. it was not obvious and clear, it was confusing and I did the best that I could with the limited information I had, nobody is omniscient. but when we look back on the past it seems ‘so obvious’ because we have… way more information and experience and context than when have in the moment, especially the time to take all that info and process it.
and it’s stupidly arrogant to assume some average person of limited means and intelligence could see how ‘evil’ things around them were. only a minority of the population is looking at some big picture of what their government is doing, most folks just care about food on their table and are totally consumed by day to day life.
admitting we are limited beings that make mistakes or just are totally blind to horrible things… is painful and scary.
most people use ‘empathy’ as a word to bully other people and feel superior about themselves. and believe empathy is only given to select groups who have ‘victim’ status. so you are not allowed to empathize with germans or members of the nazi party, only the victims of the nazi state.
people are more than happy to commit horrors on others.
that’s the whole point, you want a well-defined group to be able to blame, torture, and kill. because this groups existence is the ‘problem’ that is holding back your ideal society from existing.
and every ideology has this. they all need an amorphous boogeyman and as a label to condemn their non-believers.
And what happens when you have wiped out that group? Are there other similar examples to look at that didn’t get stamped out so quickly and were able to collapse internally instead
Jews have been the scapegoat since for ever, when stuff didn’t go right pogroms happened. In the case of Nazi Germany, the discrimination lasted long enough to show that the scapegoat keeps being used, even when the minorities have been wiped out. So much of the defeats were blamed on vague and unknown inner enemies, aided by or aiding the Jews, even when there was no supporting evidence for this.
The problem is that it didn’t carry on further. The beginnings of most ideologies sound fine but it’s the reality and the shunning of “the other” where you start to see the horrors.
Yeah, the whole thing is that most of this sounds good until you have to be part of it as it plays out. It just gets worse, and worse, and the people become more, and more, polarized about the situation. The problems with the ideas, which should have been obvious from the beginning, start to take effect in ways that finally start to hurt the people it was proposed to support. Then the system goes into collapse.
See, and even this could lead into a fantastic lesson about how fascism is really seductive in these vague terms, especially to help clean up a lot of the questions of “well why didn’t people fight back” that teens have when learning about Italy and Germany pre-WWII.
hindsight is easy.
i can look back on every thing that happened to me in the past and it’s clear what was wrong. but when you are living through it, you can’t see that. it was not obvious and clear, it was confusing and I did the best that I could with the limited information I had, nobody is omniscient. but when we look back on the past it seems ‘so obvious’ because we have… way more information and experience and context than when have in the moment, especially the time to take all that info and process it.
and it’s stupidly arrogant to assume some average person of limited means and intelligence could see how ‘evil’ things around them were. only a minority of the population is looking at some big picture of what their government is doing, most folks just care about food on their table and are totally consumed by day to day life.
admitting we are limited beings that make mistakes or just are totally blind to horrible things… is painful and scary.
it’s obvious some people just have 0 empathy
which people?
most people use ‘empathy’ as a word to bully other people and feel superior about themselves. and believe empathy is only given to select groups who have ‘victim’ status. so you are not allowed to empathize with germans or members of the nazi party, only the victims of the nazi state.
lmao
people are more than happy to commit horrors on others.
that’s the whole point, you want a well-defined group to be able to blame, torture, and kill. because this groups existence is the ‘problem’ that is holding back your ideal society from existing.
and every ideology has this. they all need an amorphous boogeyman and as a label to condemn their non-believers.
And what happens when you have wiped out that group? Are there other similar examples to look at that didn’t get stamped out so quickly and were able to collapse internally instead
Jews have been the scapegoat since for ever, when stuff didn’t go right pogroms happened. In the case of Nazi Germany, the discrimination lasted long enough to show that the scapegoat keeps being used, even when the minorities have been wiped out. So much of the defeats were blamed on vague and unknown inner enemies, aided by or aiding the Jews, even when there was no supporting evidence for this.