This isn’t crimes against humanity, it’s just a special bombing operation. For testing you know. How else do you know your bombs work if not by dropping them on indochina or the middle east? 乁| ･ 〰 ･ |ㄏ
Actually…Drone bombings happen every 20 minutes or so 24 hours a day, then there’s the bombs dropped by manned aircraft too. Under Obama, they did so much drone bombing that they ran out of drone bombs
ofc china is the best super power in the world!!!
except if you live in africa… or taiwan… or tibet… or mongolia… or hongkong… or you’re a uigur… or you’re queer… or you’re black… or you’re a farmer… or you live in a tofu dreg building… or you like human rights… or free press… or privacy…
should I go on?
you see, china does a lot of bad things that don’t require bombs, which the us doesn’t, but in return they throw bombs, both are just imperialist genocide driving forces, as most states
also china’s not that far away from throwing bombs:
So you guzzled ALL of the burger’s propaganda huh?
Haha no you forgot xinjiang
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Ted Kaczinsky dropped sixteen bombs, while Ted Bundy didn’t drop a single one. I guess that means Kaczinsky is worse?
China is lifting people out of poverty, building out infrastructure, and transitioning to clean energy at breakneck speed. In minds of some people that’s equivalent to being a serial killer. This is the state of western intellect.
Tell that to the Uyghurs China is trying to destroy that the media conveniently forgot about.
I love how there are people dumb enough to keep parroting obvious propaganda that’s been debunked to death already.
The whole conspiracy theory started with a claim of millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”.
However, this claim is completely absurd when you stop and think about it even for a minute. That figure 1 million is repeated again and again. Let’s just look at how much space would you actually need to intern one million people.
This is a photo of Rikers Island, New York City’s biggest prison. The actual size of a facility interning ten thousand people.
According to Wikipedia, “The average daily inmate population on the island is about 10,000, although it can hold a maximum of 15,000.” Let’s assume this is a Xinjiang detention camp, holding ten to fifteen thousand people. How many of these would it take to hold one million people?
Let’s do some math:
Rikers Size Rikers Prisoners One Million Uyghurs Size 413.2 acres (0.645 square miles) 10,000 to 15,000 43 to 64 square miles In reality, one million people would probably take more space; all the supposed detention camps we see are much less dense than Rikers.
For comparison, San Francisco is 47 square miles. Amsterdam is 64 square miles. You’d literally need detention camps that total the size of San Francisco or Amsterdam to intern one million Uyghurs. It’d be like looking at a map of California. There’s Los Angeles. There’s San Diego. And look, there’s San Francisco Concentration City with its one million Uyghurs.
Literally visible to the naked eye from space.
CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.” Furthermore, it doesn’t even make sense from logistics perspective.
Practically all the stories we see about China trace back to Adrian Zenz is a far right fundamentalist nutcase and not a reliable source for any sort of information. The fact that he’s the primary source for practically every article in western media demonstrates precisely what I’m talking about when I say that coverage is divorced from reality.
Zenz is a born-again Christian who lectures at the European School of Culture and Theology. This anodyne-sounding campus is actually the German base of Columbia International University, a US-based evangelical Christian seminary which considers the “Bible to be the ultimate foundation and the final truth in every aspect of our lives,” and whose mission is to “educate people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.”
Zenz’s work on China is inspired by this biblical worldview, as he recently explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. “I feel very clearly led by God to do this,” he said. “I can put it that way. I’m not afraid to say that. With Xinjiang, things really changed. It became like a mission, or a ministry.”.
Along with his “mission” against China, heavenly guidance has apparently prompted Zenz to denounce homosexuality, gender equality, and the banning of physical punishment against children as threats to Christianity.
Zenz outlined these views in a book he co-authored in 2012, titled Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before the Tribulation. In the tome, Zenz discussed the return of Jesus Christ, the coming wrath of God, and the rise of the Antichrist.
The fact that this nutcase is being paraded as a credible researcher on the subject is absolutely surreal, and it’s clear that the methodology of his “research” doesn’t pass any kind of muster when examined closely.
It’s also worth noting that there is a political angle around the narrative around Xinjiang. For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page. An ex-CIA operative details US operations radicalizing and training terrorists in the region in this book. Here’s an excerpt:
US has been stoking terrorism in the region while they’ve been running a propaganda campaign against China in the west. In fact, US even classified Uyghur separatists as a terrorist group at one point https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-was-at-war-uyghur-terrorists-now-claims-etim-doesnt-exist/276916/
Here’s an interview with a son of imam killed in Xinjiang https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-06-19/Son-of-imam-assassinated-in-Kashgar-s-2014-mosque-attack-speaks-out-RqNiyrcRuo/index.html
Here’s an account from a Pakistani journalist who has been all over Xinjiang (which borders Pakistan) claims that western media reports on “atrocities” are lies. https://dailytimes.com.pk/723317/exposing-the-occidents-baseless-lies-about-xinjiang/
It’s also worth noting that the accusations originate entirely from the west while Muslim majority countries support China, and their leaders have visited Xinjiang many times.
- https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/on-eid-xinjiang-imams-defend-china-against-u-s-criticism-1.5425967
- https://www.bolnews.com/latest/2023/07/pak-religious-leaders-nurture-bonds-of-cooperation-with-xinjiang/
- https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/islamic-envoys-say-china-is-protecting-minorities-in-xinjiang-after-five-day-visit
Also notable that whenever western media actually deigns to visit Xinjiang, which is not often, they’re unable to produce support for any of their claims of mass imprisonment and oppression, so they opt for insinuations instead https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9
For example, here’s George Bush’s chief of staff openly saying that US wants to destabilize the region, and NED recently admitting to funding Uyghur separatism for the past 16 years on their own official Twitter page.
God damn. I didn’t know the quiet parts had become that out loud. These people suck at their jobs.
“This video is no longer available because the YouTube account associated with this video has been terminated.” No censorship here, though! 😂 Luckily Archive.org still gotchu:
- https://web.archive.org/web/20240227190321/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBthA9OHpFo
- Transcript: https://web.archive.org/web/20240624074809/https://www.factchecklab.org/20210427/#--6
.
Edit to add: I never heard of Factcheck Lab. They’re based out of Hong Kong. Unfortunately I can’t read a lick of Chinese.I find the fact that these people don’t even bother hiding what their actual goals are is the most phenomenal part. People just keep pretending how it’s all about human rights or some bullshit, but here he is just straight up explaining exactly what’s going on. The video getting taken down is pretty funny though. There goes my freeze peach!
You mean that thing that didn’t happen?
Close, but that metaphor was not equating either country with a serial killer, I was merely pointing out that one party’s use of bombs does not necessarily make them worse than another party who does not use bombs. Sorry you’re bad at reading
And also, it’s not the infrastructure or clean energy that gets people to not like china, it’s all the censorship and oppression
You were very clearly making a false equivalence there, trying to say that China is just differently bad from the US. All the oppression exists in the minds of western liberals who guzzle propaganda uncritically. Meanwhile, censorship exists everywhere, it’s absolutely hilarious that westerners think that they got the level of censorship right while everyone else got it wrong. It’s a perfect example of people suffering from anchoring bias thinking the rules of a society they grew up in is the natural default.
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Posting racist images online is not a meaningful expression of freedom, as anybody with a functioning brain would understand. Here’s what actual tangible freedom looks.
- https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democracy-most-us-say-america-isnt-1711176
- https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilified-abroad-popular-at-home-China-s-Communist-Party-at-100
- https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree
- https://web.archive.org/web/20230511041927/https://6389062.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/6389062/Canva images/Democracy Perception Index 2023.pdf
- https://www.tbsnews.net/world/china-more-democratic-america-say-people-98686
- https://web.archive.org/web/20201229132410/https://en.news-front.info/2020/06/27/studies-have-shown-that-china-is-more-democratic-than-the-united-states-russia-is-nearby-and-ukraine-is-at-the-bottom/
The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf
From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4
From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&%3Blocations=CN&%3Bstart=2008
By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html
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Winnie the Pooh is banned in China
Winnie the Pooh is not banned in China, despite Western propaganda to the contrary.
There’s a reason you can find a lot of Americans talking about how they don’t like the American government, and not a lot of Chinese people saying they don’t like the Chinese government, and it’s not because the Chinese government is perfect.
No government is perfect, but Chinese people like their government a lot more than Americans like theirs for good reason: their material conditions have been steadily improving over the last several decades while ours have been steadily deteriorating under grinding neoliberalism.
They probably do in training
Ues but thankfully not only two countries exist in the world. Picking between china and the usa is like picking shit with and without corn.
Imagine writing that completely unironically.
Imagine writing that completely unironically.
ok there parrot
Ok there edgelord
Imagine having someone reply the exact same thing back to you and get more up votes.
How embarrassing for you.
The PRC needs to return land it has unjustly conquered.
From the KMT, from the Japanese, or from the feudal lords that re-established themselves during the Chinese Civil War?
How dare they “unjustly” conquer Chiang Kai-shek’s fascist state.
🤡
🤡
Ok let’s see which way this goes.
🤡
Is that 46 on average also for the past 40 years? Do you have a source for this? Not trying to wreck your post, but I’d like to drop this on some non-leftists one day at the appropriate time, and I want to be confident that the information is reliable.
Agreeing the USA sucks isn’t hard too swallow.
Been doing it every morning for 42 years
And those are like $10 mil apiece minimum, but no free lunch for YOUR unworthy poor children. They would rather pay $1000 to kill a foreign child than $1 to feed yours.
The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation.
George Orwell, 1984
The $1000 comes from us and goes into their pocket… The $1 would come out of their pocket and into our kid’s mouth… Although, we’d probably need to buy the food from them too so the $1 would still end up back in their pocket… But the point of the system is to take money out of our pockets and put it in theirs, not to take it out of one of their pockets and put it in their other pocket
On average? So you just take all bombs dropped by the USA and divide it by the number of days the US has been a thing? Then you compare that to the amount of days China hasn’t dropped a bomb?
This makes no sense…
You want to know what the stats were calculated from? Because it sure as heck wasn’t “how many bombs has USA ever dropped ever”.
Over 337,000 bombs and missiles dropped from 2001-2021. This equals an average of 46 per day over a recent 20 year period.
https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davies-220112/
IDK why you’re being downvoted, you’re totally right. For this to be closer to a fair comparison, we’d need to know the averages for both countries over the same time period.
Let’s make the last 40 years our time window. China has dropped zero bombs in that period, making their average zero bombs dropped per day.
Now for the US, they’ve certainly dropped some bombs in the last 40 years. So that would make their average… Greater than zero bombs dropped per day… Oh…
If we take that back to let’s say 1949 when PRC was founded (to have the most timeframe possible) it would look even worse for USA because China still didn’t dropped much more bombs in that period but for USA it would include Korea, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia - 4 worst and most intensive aerial terror campaigns in history.
thank god it isn’t a dichotomy
thank god for your meaningless straw man of a vaguepost
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What do you mean, different? Every country is different from each other. If you were clear about what you’re implying here, i.e. “different as in having no negative sides” then it would be obvious that your argument is against an absolute straw man. Nobody made such a claim.
It’s not like China doesn’t have issues but I think you don’t understand or want to think about just how incredibly fucked up the USA is. China is definitely way less bad.
How many countries have they couped? How many civil wars in poor countries are they responsible for? To you in your comfy home this is just academic but these are the worst atrocities in human history, and the USA does them one after the other after the other.
Would China not drop bombs if they faced no consequences and it benefited them?
No, China has something called a democracy and Chinese people don’t want to drop bombs on little kids. Let me make that clear, Chinese people don’t want to blow up little kids. It might be hard to wrap your mind around but a majority of people don’t want something to happen, so it doesn’t happen.
The average American also doesn’t like the idea of having children be blown up, but they watch slop TV instead and complain about gas prices and having to wear a mask once in their life. When kids do get blown up the TV tells the american settler that they were evil kids, so they go back to complaining about tv shows and self-flattery.
Sorry, if you legitimately believe that China doesn’t drop bombs on people because that’s the will of the people then I don’t think there’s any further productive conversation to be had. I admire your ability to believe, though.
Crackkker projecting again
Seems you haven’t seen humanity ever in you life so you can’t imagine it existing
Sad
Idk, they probably have had the opportunity sometimes, but they don’t have the same military industrial complex as the USA pushing for it at every chance. So the cost benefit analysis is different. Quite often it doesn’t benefit “the USA” as much as a few specific people within, and that mechanic doesn’t exist in the same way for China.
What do you mean that mechanic doesn’t exist in the same way for China? Are you talking like China has achieved a classless utopia situation?
No, the arms manufacturers just don’t have the same level of influence over the government and armed forces that they do in America, and the people in the government who decide whether to drop bombs won’t personally get rich if they buy more bombs.
That isn’t something unique to China btw but basically almost every country except USA and a few others.
Do you think that dynamic wouldn’t exist for any country, including China, that had as much world influence as the US does now?
I mean- yeah, the birdcage model has been supplanted by majority public ownership at this point, the same incentives that create the military industrial complex don’t exist- if you’d like, i would recommend reading “Economy and Class Structure of German Fascism” which can be a handy reference point for the US military complex.
Saying that China doesn’t have a MIC is a non-sequitur. The incentive is power. If acquiring or maintaining power in China requires military expansion, it will happen.
Except imperialism is actually incredibly inefficient in the long term. Western nations become imperialist due to the contradictions created by capitalism.There is a reason why China’s foreign policy is centered around mutual advancement.
Can you be more clear in your question?
My point is that the real hard-to-swallow pill for people like OP is that China is not a magical place where everyone just sings kumbaya all day. China is just like any other country comprised of humans that has existed ever, and would do the same things the US is doing now if they could. The only reason this meme is in any way accurate is that China can’t realistically drop bombs like that, otherwise they would. Tankies like OP will defend imperialism all day long, as long as the imperialists say “Death To America!”. If the US poofed out of existence today, there would be a power vacuum quickly filled by exactly the same sort of people that are dropping those bombs in the meme.
So I guess my question is “What’s the point of pretending that China is any different?”
Your kind of reasoning is called “projection”. You are actually choking on that pill.
China is just like any other country comprised of humans that has existed ever, and would do the same things the US is doing now if they could.
Yeah, except they’re different countries, made up of different people, with a different culture, with a pretty much fundamentally different kind of organizational structure governing them. I don’t think “well, they’d probably do it too, if the US were gone” is a super convincing argument in favor of the US dropping bombs on people.
That’s just a thing you made up to justify not feeling bad, there is no reason to believe that anyone else would act the same way.
