https://mander.xyz/post/42872387
I received insults
Someone even posted photos of dead bodies
These comments weren’t reviewed, but I was permanently blocked because my political stance is to hope for the reunification of my country. They said I have nothing to offer, just spreading propaganda and negativity.
Looool. "Who cares what the people living there think: I, an enlightened westerner, have decided that they are invalid.
I support Taiwanese peoples right to self determination
Are you going to unironically claim that referendums conducted under military occupation by a well known autocratic regime are going to be genuine?
And if they say “We don’t want to be a part of the PRC” would you accept that?
How convenient: any time you don’t like the result of a referendum, just declare that it can’t be trusted.
Yes: unlike you I wouldn’t just declare “well clearly the RoC government just rigged the vote.”
Would you accept if they did choose to be part of the PRC?
Not what I asked you: Are you going to unironically claim that referendums conducted under military occupation by a well known autocratic regime are going to be genuine?
The referendums in the Russian occupied regions were not conducted by Ukraine under any kind of neutral parties observation. Many Ukrainians who lived there had outright fled the regions due to the war, and could not vote - moreover, Russia didn’t even occupy all of the regions they held these referendums in. Moreover, are you normalising and justifying the idea of a state just invading chunks of land and them legitimising their conquest via dodgy referendums?
Yes.
Damn, crazy how there aren’t any referendums from before the Russian invasion. I wonder why not…
Has Taiwan had any referendums conducted by the PRC? Presumably those are the only ones you’d respect.
As opposed to just refusing to hold referendums in the first place?
There also haven’t been any referendums in Wallonia to join France. Or Flanders to join the Netherlands. Or Austria to join Germany. What’s your point?
No, they haven’t. Why would they? The PRC don’t control Taiwan. I fail to see how this comparison makes any sense.
Also, is there a particular reason I should have to respect any referendums organised by Russia?
When did the Zap oblast or Kherson demand referendums?
Is Wallonia obliged to hold a referendum to see if they want to join France? Is Russia “refusing” to hold referendums in Dagestan, Bashkortostan?
Ah, I see you’ve reached the “deliberately playing dumb” stage of bad faith argument.
And Ukraine doesn’t control Donbas, yet you said any referendums have to be overseen by them to be legitimate. But again, you’re playing dumb here.
Damn, really picking and choosing when it comes to “recognizing the right to self determination”
Whataboutism. We are talking about Donbas, which tried to have referendums, only for Ukraine to declare them illegal.
Ah ok, so you support the right to self determination, unless the ruling power says no, then it’s tough luck.
And how is that playing dumb? What’s the difference? Would it be justiified for France to notice that Wallonia hasn’t held a referendum on joining them, invade and then hold their own referendum there?
But they did (and we are not even just talking about the Donbas here but also Russia controls Kherson and Zap oblast (partially). This would be like if the PRC invaded and occupied Taiwan and then held a referendum. I would also not accept that outcome as valid either.
That’s not what I asked you. Is there a reason Russia should be seen as trustworthy when it comes to election outcomes? Would you trust any referendum held by any state on earth yourself?
We are not just talking about the Donbass, as Russia also held referendums in those regions I mentioned. And for that matter though, when did the Donbass-at-large demand referendums prior to Russia invading? The Donetsk/Luhansk Republics only at maximum managed to occupy about 1/4 of the entire region.
Does this surprise you? Would you expect any country to recognise as legal and legitimate referendums to secede conducted by an an invading country on their territory?
How a referendum begins does matter. I obviously don’t respect the legitimacy of the 1938 Austrian plebiscite, and I assume neither do you. A referendum held by a revanchist state occupying a region militarily after invading it, driving the old local government out and driving hundreds of thousands of people from their homes is going to be pretty lown down on the list of “valid and fair” referendums that could happen.
That’s not an answer to my question. Is Wallonia obliged to hold a referendum to see if they want to join France? Is Russia “refusing” to hold referendums in Dagestan, Bashkortostan?
Is it “tough luck” for Tatarstan by your logic then? Is it “tough luck” for Tibet too?
Because obviously you do actually know what the difference is, and are just trying to waste time.
And now they don’t. So why should they still have to be the one overseeing the referendum?
Of course, we’ve already gathered you pick and choose on this matter.
No, it doesn’t surprise me at all. Whether it is “surprising” has zero bearing on the point at hand and you’re only bringing it up to waste time and dodge the point.
This is all completely irrelevant nitpicking, and you know it.
Sounds like you don’t actually believe in people’s right to self determination at all. Here’s a question for you: why should the PRC trust any referendum that the RoC does that suggests the people of Taiwan don’t want reunification?
Sounds like you only support referendums you agree with the outcomes of. Not to mention you’re ignoring the referendums that took place before the Russian invasion.
That was your logic, dumbass. You can’t even remember your own claimed position anymore