- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se
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Big shout out to Windows 11 and their TPM bullshit.
Was thinking that my wee “Raspberry PI home server” was starting to feel the load a bit too much, and wanted a bit of an upgrade. Local business was throwing out some cute little mini PCs since they couldn’t run Win11. Slap in a spare 16 GB memory module and a much better SSD that I had lying about, and it runs Arch (btw) like an absolute beast. Runs Forgejo, Postgres, DHCP, torrent and file server, active mobile phone backup etc. while sipping 4W of power. Perfect; much better fit than an old desktop keeping the house warm.
Have to think that if you’ve been given a work desktop machine with a ten-year old laptop CPU and 4GB of RAM to run Win10 on, then you’re probably not the most valued person at the company. Ran Ubuntu / GNOME just fine when I checked it at its original specs, tho. Shocking, the amount of e-waste that Microsoft is creating.
Question, what’s the benefit of running a separate DHCP server?
I run openwrt, and the built in server seems fine? Why add complexity?
I’m sure there’s a good reason I’m just curious.
The router provided with our internet contract doesn’t allow you to run your own firmware, so we don’t have anything so flexible as what OpenWRT would provide.
Short answer; in order to Pi-hole all of the advertising servers that we’d be connecting to otherwise. Our mobile phones don’t normally allow us to choose a DNS server, but they will use the network-provided one, so it sorts things out for the whole house in one go.
Long, UK answer: because our internet is being messed with by the government at the moment, and I’d prefer to be confident that the DNS look-ups we receive haven’t been altered. That doesn’t fix everything - it’s a VPN job - but little steps.
The DHCP server provided with the router is so very slow in comparison to running our own locally, as well. Websites we use often are cached, but connecting to something new takes several seconds. Nothing as infuriating as slow internet.
Buy another router that allows you to run openwrt or anything else you fancy, and use the locked-down one just as a gateway to the new one, problem solved. My setup is somewhat similar – locked-down cable modem router that I can’t customize, bought a netgear router, installed freshtomato on it
Oh you mean DNS server, yes ok that makes sense. Yeah I totally understand running your own.
If I understand correctly, DHCP servers just assign local IPs on initial connection, and configure other stuff like pointing devices to the right DNS server, gateway, etc
Sorry, putting the two things together, my mistake. My router doesn’t let you specify the DNS server directly, but it does allow you to specify a different DHCP server, which can then hand out new IPs with a different DNS server specified, as you say. Bit of a house of cards. DHCP server in order to be the DNS server too.
Gotcha! No worries. Networking gets more and more like sorcery the deeper you go.
Networking and printers are my two least favorite computer things.
So on mine, I haven’t bothered to change from the ISP provided router, which is mostly adequate for my needs, except I need to do some DNS shenigans, and so I take over DHCP to specify my DNS server which is beyond the customization provided by the ISP router.
Frankly been thinking of an upgrade because they don’t do NAT loopback and while I currently workaround with different DNS results for local queries, it’s a bit wonky to do that and I’m starting to get WiFi 7 devices and could use an excuse to upgrade to something more in my control.
That makes sense. I haven’t used an ISP configured router in over a decade. At my parents house, their modem/router combo didn’t support bridge mode so I put it in a DMZ and slapped that to the WAN port on my router. Worked well.
The main concern with old hardware is probably powerdraw/efficiency, depending on how old your PC is, it might not be the best choice. But remember: companies are getting rid of old hardware fairly quickly, they can be a good choice and might be available for dirt cheap or even free.
I recently replaced my old Synology NAS from 2011 with an old Dell Optiplex 3050 workstation that companies threw away. The system draws almost twice the power (25W) compared to my old synology NAS (which only drew 13W, both with 2 spinning drives), but increase in processing power and flexibility using TrueNAS is very noticable, it allowed me to also replace an old raspberry pi (6W) that only ran pihole.
So overall, my new home-server is close in power draw to the two devices it replaced, but with an immense increase in performance.
True for notebooks. (For years my home NAS was an old Asus EEE PC)
Desktops, on the other hand, tend to consume a lot more power (how bad it is, depends on the generation) - they’re simply not designed to be a quiet device sitting on a corner continuously running a low CPU power demanding task: stuff designed for a lot more demanding tasks will have things like much bigger power sources which are less efficient at low power demand (when something is design to put out 400W, wasting 5 or 10W is no big deal, when it’s designed to put out 15W, wasting 5 or 10W would make it horribly inefficient).
Meanwhile the typical NAS out there is running an ARM processor (which are known for their low power consumption) or at worse a low powered Intel processor such as the N100.
Mind you, the idea of running you own NAS software is great (one can do way more with that than with a proprietary NAS, since its far more flexible) as long as you put it in the right hardware for the job.
I have used laptops like this and I find that eventually the cooling system fails, probably because they aren’t meant to run all the time like a server would be. various brands including Dell and Lenovo and MSI and Apple. maybe it’s the dust in my house. I don’t know
Yeah, different hardware is designed for different use cases and generally won’t work as well for other use cases, which is also why desktops seldom make for great NAS servers (their fans will also fail from constant use, plus their design spec is for much higher power usage so they have a lot more power waste even if trottled down).
That said my ASUS EEE PC lasted a few years on top of a cabinet in my kitchen (which is were the Internet came into my house so the router was also there) with a couple of external HDDs plugged in, and that’s a bit of a hostile environment (because some of the particulates from cooking, including fat, don’t get pulled out and end up accumulating there).
At the moment I just have a Mini-PC on my living room with a couple of external HDDs plugged in that works as NAS, TV Media Box and home server (including wireguard VPN on top of a 1Gbps connection, which at peak is somewhat processor intensive). It’s an N100 and the whole thing has a TDP of 15W so the fan seldom activates. So far that seems to be the best long term solution, plus it’s multiple use unlike a proprietary NAS. It’s the some of the best €140 (not including the HDDs) I’ve ever spent.
How does a notebook—outside of including a DAS—provide meaningful storage volume?
When I had my setup with an ASUS EEE PC I had mobile external HDDs plugged to it via USB.
Since my use case was long-term storage and feeding video files to a Media TV Box, the bandwidth limit of USB 2.0 and using HDDs rather than SDDs was fine. Also back then I had 100Mbps ethernet so that too limited bandwidth.
Even in my current setup where I use a Mini-PC to do the same, I still have the storage be external mobile HDDs and now badwidth limits are 1Gbps ethernet and USB 3.0, which is still fine for my use case.
Because my use case now is long term storage, home file sharing and torrenting, my home network is using the same principles as distributed systems and modern microprocessor architectures: smaller faster data stores with often used data close to were its used (for example fast smaller SDDs with the OS and game executables inside my gaming machine, plus a torrent server inside that same Mini-PC using its internal SDD) and then layered outwards with decreasing speed and increasing size (that same desktop machine has an internal “storage” HDD filled with low use files, and one network hop from it there’s the Mini-PC NAS sharing its external HDDs containing longer term storage files).
The whole thing tries to balance storage costs and with usage needs.
I suppose I could improve performance a bit more by setting up some of the space in the internal SDD in the Mini-PC as a read/write cache for the external HDDs, but so far I haven’t had the patience to do it.
I used to design high performance distributed computing systems and funnilly enough my home setup follows the same design principles (which I had not noticed until thinking about it now as I wrote this).
The number one concern with a NAS is the power draw. I can’t think of many systems that run under 30W.
NAS, no. Server for my random docker containers or whatever project I’m screwing around with, yes.
Why would I throw it away, when I can give it to someone who needs it more, or sell it? Using it as a NAS will use up more power than just buying a mini PC and using that. I calculated the costs and the energy savings would pay for one in two years. My NUC uses 6-7W idle.
I’d use an old PC as a NAS but turned it on only on demand, when it was needed. Which does hurt its convenience factor a little.
Note: talking about desktops.Why would I throw it away, when I can give it to someone who needs it more, or sell it?
Because selling is always a hassle, dealing with choosing beggars and scammers, and it may not be worth much anymore for general use.
For example, my old PC is a i7 4770k… it can’t run Windows 11 or play remotely recent games. I don’t know anyone who could use this thing, so to save a few watts I took out the GPU, put it in eco mode and have been using it as my Linux server.
My NUC uses 6-7W idle.
I have played around with some mini PC’s (minisforum and beelink brand), they’re neat but they turned out to be not very reliable, two have already died prematurely, and unfortunately they are not end-user serviceable. Lack of storage expansion options is an issue as well, if you don’t just want to stack a bunch of external USB drives on top of each other.
Laptops are better, because they have an integrated uninterruptible power supply, but worse because most can’t fit two hard drives internally. Less of a problem, now that most have USB3. Just run external RAID if you have to.
Arguably, a serious home server will need a UPS anyway to keep the modem and router online, but a UPS for just the NAS is still better than no UPS at all. Also, only a small UPS is needed for the modem and router. A full desktop UPS is much larger.
They make m.2 to SATA adapters that have like 10 SATA ports. A laptop motherboard in a case with one of those would be very interesting. I have plans for one but I need to buy some parts (keyboard and laptop fan).
Edit: the adapters run hot and are kind of fragile. I’d recommend having a thermal pad under it thermally coupling it to the motherboard and giving it some support.
House battery, it’s like a UPS for your entire house! I want one.
Don’t throw away your old PC
Literally first-world problems, right? There’s absolutely no need to tell that to someone that don’t live on a rich country. Old gear always finds some use or is sold/donated away.
It also takes space and makes lots of noise. But for sure, with couple upgrades, it will work like a charm.
I’ve got a Lenovo sitting by the TV, quietly running Jellyfin along with ESde. Might not run Win11 but it works fine for what I use it for.
Mime didn’t, but it is from 2006. I think it is messed up.
This is likely also true when you start serving stuff and need transcoding etc.
Why do I need transcoding, if I may ask? My TV always plays the served file directly. 🤷♂️ Is there anything to gain by transcoding, especially on the local home network?
Storage space, ensuring quality settings, supporting more device than “your tv”, smaller bandwidth requirements.
Gotcha. I guess I have no need then. 👌
My GPU failed on my old (vista) PC and can no longer boot. Should I throw it away?
A few years ago I had that case with a Laptop with a burnt dedicated graphics card.
The moment the Windows installer detected it, a blue screen ended the installation.
But a Linux installation worked and afterwards it was even possible to disable the damaged hardware permanently.
The laptop still runs without further problems.Integrated graphics?
This is a 2005 desktop. I can’t even get it past the bootloader. Ideally I would run Linux on it headless, but i can’t even get to that stage.
I mean it sounds like maybe kore than the GPU failed then? Otherwise briefly move a gpu or install the OS via on a different system and then move the drive
I love my trueNAS!
I have an old machine been using as a Unraid server for years. It’s an i7-3770 paired with 32GB of ram and like 4x2TB drives.
Finally upgrading it because it’s just not going to keep meeting needs and frankly it’s wicked old (might keep it as a gitlab runner server or something). Finally “upgrading” by taking some old hardware (and bought some new), to have a full compute + storage setup. Proxmox (Ryzen 9 5900XT + 128GB ram) with all the compute and TruNas (Ryzen 7 3700X + 64GB ram + 8x16TB drives [LSI LOGIC SAS9211-8I] [raidz2/82.62 TiB usable]) for storage with a private 10G direct link between the two (Intel X550T2BLK).
