Well, you answered your own question 3 times. Consider the nature of that kind of conversation.

In a nutshell, thinking coarsens as it passes hand to hand. First-hand is finest. Fourth-hand is a crude and nigh-solipsistic.

So that’s one argument for independent thought.

I think that isolating oneself in a cave might be best.

Imagine an illusion, the matrix, built not of scifi machinery but of habit, maintained by the presence of others.

Get alone and the habits dissolve. And then the invisible becomes visible.

When both sides are full of professional liars, that won’t work.

We might have to settle for not knowing.

I might add, “become comfortable with uncertainty”. Because nothing drowns you in a swamp of bullshit like an excessive need for certainty.

Repeating “they are bad and dumb” ad nauseum is no way to inspire sane conversation. It’s just echo chamber circle jerk.

That’s the best way

our thoughts are given form by language and vocabulary

And our experiences, and our intelligence, too. Right?

Which makes the challenge one of navigating that mess.

There is the theory that we feel emotions first and then we think only to justify the emotion.

This would imply that it isn’t the thinking that needs to be managed but the emotions.

Everything written by Greg Egan for the first decade or so of his writing career

It’s a good point.

Sure

Godzilla (Japan). In one zap of the breath weapon takes out 100,000 people. No pause for reflection or comment on the meaning of it. Just immediately cut to next scene.

We don’t do that in USA

Immortal 2004. (A very kickass movie if you haven’t) (French). Horus (The egyptian god) has this relationship with Nickopol (badass poet/politician). It’s hilarious. Horus sees humans as at best children or pets or disposable tools. There’s no aside or smirk or “yeah but…”. No, they just go with it 100%. 100%! That’s something you don’t see too often.

One thing I think about is the incredible poverty of text.

When you look at a word you get a meaning. But that meaning, it comes mostly from your entire life’s experience, your memory, what you’ve been taught. That’s huge. And the word is very very small, comparatively.

So when you’re reading, 99% of the content is coming from you. So reading is basically you just talking to yourself. And social media is a million people talking to themselves.

And that’s pretty weird.

hmm, yes. Maybe I translated it in my head

fair enough

It’s a fairly on-point criticism actually.

It’s one example of a common disease. So I figured it bore discussion. Now put it back in your pants and zip up.

The best weird ideas are framed as hard science fiction.

Here are 3 good ones

Fine Structure by qntm ( https://qntm.org/structure . Free)

Friendship is Optimal by Iceman ( https://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-optimal . Free)

Axiomatic by Greg Egan (it’s a collection of short stories. Nonfree. Google it)