"well duh. How else would you get to choose a red or blue cock up your arse.

Let’s remove the last 4 words.

It’s more a matter of how obvious they are then if.

Given the Wassailing history of may Xmas traditions.

A noisy song demanding food is not exactly out of place.

So basically become a DC super villain?

Splitting the left vote from what.

The labour party already outright rejected the left. After lying to them to take power.

For all greens growth. They have never been a huge left wing draw. They are a very centrist membership. As is ZPs political history. And given the lefts recent history with centrists has lead to Starmer etc.

The simple fact is. No one party will successfully unit the left as a whole.

With FPTP the only way the left is going to represent the population it actually holds. Is pre electoral agreements of some form.

Fortunately both Green and YP are very much considering that nessesery.

My opinion. It’s a bit like planning a PR like unification without PR. And is likely the only way to implement PR while larger party’s try to force their FPTP advantage.

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Given how much of public opinion is created by the media.

It’s “almost” understandable that politicians. Assume the public’s opinions has changed once the media forgets an issue.

He’s 76. So honestly. It would be more surprising if folks found him easy to convince of new ideas.

At 55 I honestly have to kick myself every now and then the rethink some things.

I tend to agree with much of what he says. But think he lacks the political awareness to lead the party.

But honestly while I like ZS as a person. Her own mistakes mean we need someone a little more considered to lead the party.

But we are not in a hurry. The plan (if the votes doesn’t change it) to have 2 leadership elections in the first year post conference, one now in forming the party. Then one a year later to head into the election.

ATM id not vote JC for either. But feel other members may well select him as the first leader.

I’d be more surprised if he is selected in the 2nd year. As A) he is unlikely to be fighting Starmer. B) I honestly think we need a younger leader that can attract younger voters to back them.

Honestly she was pretty darn careful not to name Corbyn as leading the group. She openly stated that it was a group within his team that was taking over and not him.

As for being her friend. There is no evidence they have ever been anny more then political allies. She has only ever said she respected him. Never claimed some personal relationship.

The whole not using the word friend argument is just a pathetic one. He is 45 years older then her. It is unlikely they have anything in common beyond politics.

Yep that is how democracy works. Backbenchers represent the voters. When voters are clearly pissed off with a govs actions. That gov listens to back benchers. Or is removed by them in a confidence vote.

They are MPs, not YP MPs, all 6 are independents in parliament. As YP has not fully formed, it has never selected MPs. And as yet absolutely no ability or authority to do so exists within the party procedures. They are just active members at best.

A party that appoints MPs without membership approval is a circle jerk with no interest in democracy. That is the whole point of the movement that set up YP.

Setting up a member led party movement, then allowing some nebulous group of self-appointed leaders to appoint MPs before it’s even formed. Would def be those MPs wanking each other as you suggest.

Maybe look at what the actual party movement stands for. Rather then listening to media bollocks.

Despite those arguments being very much open and a part of national news from day one. His view that it lacks openness seems based on some new fangled view of open no one else follows.

And your only evidence being one independent MP who is no more than an active member of the party. That clearly disagreed with the remaining sources standing with the party. And decided leaving was his only way to effect a losing argument.

The more logical conclusion is Adnan Hussain was unwilling to work with the rest of the party.

Yes, it’s one argument the leaders of both sides of the debate worked together. And one member that happened to be an MP and have no leadership role in the party ( as no one currently does. Even Corbyn is no more than an acting figurehead for the electoral commission rules until after conference). Left after the debate was settled by other active members.

As I keep saying. The media view of YP is totally false and ignores every other party, having much worse arguments all the time. Anyone who wants to can look into the causes and arguments of the debate. It really takes no effort to see it is to be expected given the current stage and risk involved in setting up any party from an idealistic movement. And no different to the history of every other party in the UK.

Dose the party have a few issues. Of course, it’s 2 Months old and attempting a first time set up of a very complex structure. But to claim it is failing is totally failinbg to look at any of the internals or plans of the party. Because even with such debates. Everything promissed is happening on schedule. And the actors involved are in no way managing or in most cases even trying to take control while the membership is built.

And in exchange for well below NMW benifit costs by the government.

Comapanies get free labour and fire jobs they paid for. Both evidenced multiple times.

So yes, it is free welfare for the corporations. Not individuals that need it. And as it clearly leads to unemployment for employees of those industries. ~It is clearly a move from vol;entry employment to outright slave labour.

Except it is not NMW never has been when gov order work for benifits. And here it is for free.

So your comment has no real points at all.

Hell if any gov pushed local authorities to pay NMW to benefit claiments in exchange for work for the community/infastructure. No one would complain. Except maybe the companies currently charging way more. And I’m pretty sure they would have media objecting all over the place.

But at every point it has been a way for companies to gain free labour from well below NMW gov paid benefits.

Always seen far rage as more of a bag of frogs then ferrets. But fair enough. It’s Def a valid point that folks seem to pay very little attention to the internal fighting within reform. Dispite it’s insane and unique ltd by shares structure meaning the leader literally is a CEO and has full control and responsibility for all corporate actions.

Unlike every other political parties LTD by garrentee structure.

As for the Tories. Were you asleep for the 14 years of constant infighting and policy turnarounds they saw. Or just following the lesser reports in mainstream media covering them.

As for labour. Yeah as an ex member, even the media is more then happy to share any row within their party over the last 100 years. But for fuck sake you have to be blind to suggest YP has not managed it’s own short and motivated argument quicker and more uniformly then labour ever has.

But here are the facts from inside YP. From an old folk who has watched a few parties from. (Look back at the 80s LIbralDems history of multiple mini parties. )

As for the history of arguments in the greens. Yeah don’t make me laugh. Their is a reason it’s taken them decades to gain a sizable support. Thier internal history is a nightmare.

All movements have a period where they move from an idea to a formalised party. And every single party in history has faced attempts to take control at that point. Because that is the point where a parties founding docs are most up to be rewritten and manipulated,

The whole idea that a single argument settled withing a week. When a party is still forming. Is in anyway a measure of the parties competence. Is utter rubbish and nothing more then a right wing media wet dream. With no basis in reality at all.

Clearly an opinion with 0 analysis of the parties goals.

Just listening to crap pushed by the media.

While totally ignoring much worse and less reasoned arguments and fights within every other party in the UK.

Solid advice above. 3d printing on these things is a huge issue initially. Set up etc is very fiddly. And this is with a new set up with everything documented by the manufacturer. As soon as you start playing with the mess others have made dealing with the same issues. More so after having dismantled and moved a set up to sell.

Really not a fun task for a first timer.

Once you have done it once and understand the issues involved and just how minor errors can mess with plate adhesive and other issues. It would be a fine purchase. But not that cheap. 1/2 price of a newer model seems normal.

But it is also worth remembering. While these printers are very upgradeable. The tech is changing fast. And this is the price range where an older printer is likely to have changed the most compared to newer models.

Why the hell is this so confusing to people.

The party is a democratic one run by the members. As such everything about it is down to members approval.

Unlike Labour who have votes at conference but totally ignore the will of it’s members.

your Party constitution will state “Conference Is sovereign”. At least after the members accept the founding docs it will.

The Same goes for the name. It has not failed to select a name. It’s whole plan is to elect the name in the conference on Nov 29-30th.

This stupid idea that the party is slow or disorganised. Is entirely right wing media bullshit. The party has existed for less then 2 months.

No other party in history has gone from vague idea to fully formed in that time. Every single party in history has huge disagreements and takes time to organise process.

Edit: What YP is trying to do is totally unique. Also very nessesery given how little control the public has over any other UK political party.

Forming a democratic party requires strong and agreed rules that both ensure principles while allowing membership to have full control over the leadership.

Everything happening within the party is down to ensuring this happens. And is happening very effectively.

Because Johnson and trump are very much relevent to the Idea Hero Worshiping leaders is a left wing thing. All sides are able to do so,

But my wording is trying to be non biased by not claiming one side was correct in there actions.

And you have made some potentially slanderous claims. The membership fees paid to the site are not in ZSs control MOU the group selected by all founders have confirmed this. Both ZS and the MOU members have said the payments go to their accounts. As expected by all those involved in the founding.

So No ZS in no way took the money. The initial set up of MOU was done specifically to prevent any one group having all control.

She did act alone in launching the membership. And failed to inform those signing up she was doing so before 20000 plus joined. But that is all she can be accused of.

As did JCs team act without full authority in launching the roadmap plan. As the agreement was no docs would be released without both founders approval.

Non of us know if her claims that other insiders were taking control are true. But she dose have other insiders backing her claims. And JCs Team only confirmed the people she accused did not have access to the accounts. Dispite the fact ZS did not actually claim that.

My what aboutism is exactly that. Because the whole idea that a new political party is a failure. Purely based on internal arguments existing. Is a freaking stupid argument every party in history has arguments as bad and often worse then this.

Some times media failing to compare criticism to the normal event. is a very valid argument against that criticism,

Edit: As for the time to form an anti fascist front,

First news articles like this Tring to make more out of an argument then actually exists are more responsible for delaying things then the arguments. Failing to recognise all political parties are constantly going thorough fights like this and using it to raise advertising while storing anger in supporters. Sure as hell ain’t speeding anything up.

As for how much time we have. Nothing can be done before the next general election. So forming a strong party able to handle disagreements. Is way more important then doing so in days. At the worst building the party before May’s local elections is important. As it can allow us to show the earliest support. The idea a huge hurry exists is not a valid one. Forming a party able to unite people is more important then silencing disagreements.

around leftwing celebrities doesn’t work,

Because Bojo and trump have been such a success. The left is far far from unique on hero worshiped leader. I agree it’s a bad idea in genrsl. But these events are not the sign.

Sorry bollocks to the whole argument. First JC and ZS are not the leaders of this new party. They are the founders. The whole point of the party. Also the very reason ZS claimed to have acted independently of the others. Was membership control. Both sides openly agree only the membership should have the right to select leaders. ZS just claimed some background actors were trying to limit that before members existed,

The members get to select the leadership once the party is formed. Your party is not being built around anything but the idea of a left wing democratic party.

The current party in government is currently involved in a much bigger breakup where members are being kicked out for political difference. As was the past government and reform. The whole idea that any existing political party is free of such arguments is bull shit with zero credibility.