Religion conforms to the ideas of the ruling class, not the other way around. Historically, religious aristocracy may become a class of its own with enough political power to challenge a ruling class, but they often have little reason to do so when they’re already part of the club, so to speak, and even when that happens, the religion conforms to the ideas of the new ruling class. The evolution of Christian canon and its various schisms throughout history immediately jump out as an example to me cause I was raised a good christian boy.
This goes both ways, however. There’s no shortage of examples of class struggle under a religious banner. From Protestant Europe, to Colonial Haiti to Qing-Era China.
Religion are weaponizing like many other things. The root cause is human fundamental bad aspects like greed. The palestinian cause is generally a cause for liberation from opression not for defending a religion. Even the Zionist leaders was not religious and many secular country is still supporting Israel
That leaves out the part where the ruling class and extremists constantly exploit weak religious minds to gain and stay in power. It’s common to all major religion. Christo-fascist America, Zionist Israel and basically 3/4 of Muslim countries.
No use sticking our head in the sand. Religion is a tool used by them just as much as capitalism is, to oppress, indoctrinate and destroy the lower classes.
There is no such thing as a good and useful religion, at least not when you take into account the overwhelming harm it has done and is still currently doing.
I don’t think what you said is wrong though, I didn’t downvote. I just think it leaves out half the story.
I think you’re half way to a perspective not reliant on 2010s Reddit atheist cliches (and the implicit western chauvinism within). We agree that religion absolutely is an instrument of class domination and always has a class character. During the Russian Revolution the church was persecuted by the bolsheviks because it was an instrument of Tsarist autocracy that ordained the oppression of the serfs, peasants, and workers. But how about liberation theology in Latin America? The exact counterpoint. We should talk about institutions rather than religions, because is Islam intrinsically this?
No, it’s something the US, Saudi, gulf regimes and Zionist entity promoted as a bulwark against Arab nationalism and Arab socialism. Religion remains a key social force in most of the world, and this intrinsic inarguable position that ignores the social forces at play won’t due.
It’s a good point and all but honestly, if you make two columns with good things religion has caused in one and bad things religion has caused in the other, the good basically amounts to a drop in the bucket.
It’s like saying capitalism is a force for good because some countries have universal healthcare.
Capitalism isn’t “good”, in big fingerquotes because applying morality to ideology misses the point, but wage-slavery is “better” than serfdom, just as serfdom is “better” than chattel slavery. They are steps.
But more to your point, do you think if everyone suddenly decided to be atheist tomorrow, in 20, 50, 100 years we’d have less violence, hatred and war? I think there are plenty of effective ways of control already in effect. Western powers would hate Muslims even if they weren’t Muslim. It’s not the Talmud that makes Israel commit genocide.
I say this as I have a front row seat to Christofascists eroding every little progress we’ve made. So believe me when I say I have very little spare sympathy right now, but if first hand experience thought me anything is that the real culprits don’t give a shit about religion
Religion conforms to the ideas of the ruling class, not the other way around. Historically, religious aristocracy may become a class of its own with enough political power to challenge a ruling class, but they often have little reason to do so when they’re already part of the club, so to speak, and even when that happens, the religion conforms to the ideas of the new ruling class. The evolution of Christian canon and its various schisms throughout history immediately jump out as an example to me cause I was raised a good christian boy.
This goes both ways, however. There’s no shortage of examples of class struggle under a religious banner. From Protestant Europe, to Colonial Haiti to Qing-Era China.
Religion are weaponizing like many other things. The root cause is human fundamental bad aspects like greed. The palestinian cause is generally a cause for liberation from opression not for defending a religion. Even the Zionist leaders was not religious and many secular country is still supporting Israel
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That leaves out the part where the ruling class and extremists constantly exploit weak religious minds to gain and stay in power. It’s common to all major religion. Christo-fascist America, Zionist Israel and basically 3/4 of Muslim countries.
No use sticking our head in the sand. Religion is a tool used by them just as much as capitalism is, to oppress, indoctrinate and destroy the lower classes.
There is no such thing as a good and useful religion, at least not when you take into account the overwhelming harm it has done and is still currently doing.
I don’t think what you said is wrong though, I didn’t downvote. I just think it leaves out half the story.
I think you’re half way to a perspective not reliant on 2010s Reddit atheist cliches (and the implicit western chauvinism within). We agree that religion absolutely is an instrument of class domination and always has a class character. During the Russian Revolution the church was persecuted by the bolsheviks because it was an instrument of Tsarist autocracy that ordained the oppression of the serfs, peasants, and workers. But how about liberation theology in Latin America? The exact counterpoint. We should talk about institutions rather than religions, because is Islam intrinsically this?
No, it’s something the US, Saudi, gulf regimes and Zionist entity promoted as a bulwark against Arab nationalism and Arab socialism. Religion remains a key social force in most of the world, and this intrinsic inarguable position that ignores the social forces at play won’t due.
It’s a good point and all but honestly, if you make two columns with good things religion has caused in one and bad things religion has caused in the other, the good basically amounts to a drop in the bucket.
It’s like saying capitalism is a force for good because some countries have universal healthcare.
Capitalism isn’t “good”, in big fingerquotes because applying morality to ideology misses the point, but wage-slavery is “better” than serfdom, just as serfdom is “better” than chattel slavery. They are steps.
But more to your point, do you think if everyone suddenly decided to be atheist tomorrow, in 20, 50, 100 years we’d have less violence, hatred and war? I think there are plenty of effective ways of control already in effect. Western powers would hate Muslims even if they weren’t Muslim. It’s not the Talmud that makes Israel commit genocide.
I say this as I have a front row seat to Christofascists eroding every little progress we’ve made. So believe me when I say I have very little spare sympathy right now, but if first hand experience thought me anything is that the real culprits don’t give a shit about religion
Impotent class collaboration movement, if i even can call it “movement”.