Obama didn’t start that war, and he was unable to cleanly exit it without leaving Afghan for the Taliban.
Gasp! Oh no! He couldn’t leave or the Taliban would be left in charge!
Hey, remind me again who exactly is in charge of Afghanistan right now?
The Taliban were always going to win because the war was unwinnable from the first day, and it was even more unwinnable by the time Obama took office. He just had to pour countless lives into it first to accomplish nothing whatsoever. What, just so we could say we gave it the “ol’ college try?”
and it’s really not hard to choose between the GOP and the Democrats.
Let me be absolutely clear: I would sooner die than even consider supporting anyone responsible for the war. There is no choice to be made. You could drag me into a voting booth at gunpoint, and I’d tell you to pull the trigger. This is the thing that you fuckers need to get through your thick fucking skulls. What they did is fundamentally unforgivable, and they should be behind bars.
Yes, that’s correct. And I haven’t learned my lesson and I’m not going to.
Guess you’d better do everything you can to ensure your next candidate doesn’t have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent people on their hands. Because I’m just too stupid to understand why it’s acceptable to vote for a mass murderer, and no matter how you explain it, I’m simply not smart enough to ever understand.
You wanting an ideal world isn’t just going to magically make it happen. Unfortunately we have to live in reality where nuance is real.
You could drag me into a voting booth at gunpoint, and I’d tell you to pull the trigger. This is the thing that you fuckers need to get through your thick fucking skulls.
No we get it. You’re an extremist and live in a fantasy world where nuance doesn’t exist and your extreme idea of morality is the only option.
Unfortunately we have to live with you (who you honestly seem like a moral person but unfortunately don’t understand that politics and most of life is about compromise) and the sociopaths on the other side who will exploit your morality to get everything they want. Your inability to understand the nuance is only good for the sociopaths.
Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.
Yes the realist position is that that a better world is not possible, so you’d better run an incredibly unpopular candidate who loses so you get nothing at all.
You’re an extremist and live in a fantasy world where nuance doesn’t exist and your extreme idea of morality is the only option.
Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.
I really don’t get how Libs think that Democrats just can’t stop war and murder. It’s actually not that hard, in fact, most people go their whole lives without invading another country, and murdering a bunch of innocent people. But when it comes to Democrats, that’s just “what they have to do”, for some reason.
The US government objectively does not represent the people, and never has. It has always represented the oligarchy. Previously:
The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.
Bush ran on avoiding foreign interventionism, and invaded. Obama ran on reducing involvement in the Middle East, then increased involvement. Trump ran on being an “outsider,” distancing himself from the establishment in both parties who had conducted the war, then he continued the war.
When did Americans ever have the opportunity to choose anyone different? For 20 years, we were never given a choice. Because when the ruling class really wants something, it gets it. Because the US is not a democracy.
Not to mention Obamas involvement in Libya, Kony 2012 or the “Arab Spring” and all the lovely interventions that brought us. Or “combat ready males” instead of “14-year old boy”. Or the continuance of Bushs surge and then later on the excuse of ISIS.
Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.
WHY THE FUCK NOT? That’s literally exactly what Biden did, the only difference is that we spend an extra decade pouring endless amounts of blood and treasure, to accomplish NOTHING. “Realist,” my ass.
Realism was recognizing that the war was lost from the minute it started, because the occupation could not last forever and the moment it ended the puppet government would collapse. Calling yourself a “realist,” while pretending that a decades long occupation was a “mistake” is completely absurd.
There’s plenty of room for nuance, on certain topics. Not on this. Not the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians. If Trump killed a hundred thousand people in New York City, would you be talking about “nuance?” Was the Holocaust “nuanced?” There’s a fucking line to be drawn, and there’s exactly one reason why Afghans are on one side of the line to me and the other to you, and it’s that you don’t see them as actual human beings.
K well as long as you’re unwilling to vote strategically, you’ll continue to allow evil fascists to take over the US. The rest of us will try to elect progressives in primaries and support the most left-leaning viable candidate in the general election because that’s how you defeat fascists if your society isn’t ready for a revolution yet, and ours isn’t. Too many full bellies and entertained morons.
Oh no! If the evil fascists take over, they might start a war of aggression that kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people or something! Just imagine!
There’s a discussion to be had about potentially supporting imperfect candidates, but every single one of you takes it to a ridiculous extreme, such that even outright genocide is no biggie. It’s completely ridiculous, utterly absurd. Frankly, yours is not a view that should even be tolerated in society.
A complete and total refusal to hold politicians to any degree of accountability for literally anything, treating them as completely above the law. This is exactly why the term Blue MAGA is completely appropriate. You are the moderate wing of fascism.
Ah yes Harris would be exactly like trump. Well hope youbenjoy your country burning to the ground. Have fun. And stio complaining your complicit in the whole thing.
I love how libs can’t address the points that other people make, and have to keep making up arguments that nobody is saying, to yell at.
Also, the “person who supports genocidists is mad that their genocidist didn’t get elected” is such a silly concept to me. Then they turn around and yell at the anti-genocidists for “being complicit”.
I didn’t plunge anybody’s homeland into fascism. It’s just that you’d just rather punch left than blame the people actually responsible.
There have been many times throughout history where people have considered genocide as acceptable to prevent a greater evil. Every single one of them was wrong.
“If the enemy is at the gates, we need to round up and exterminate anyone of their race, because if they open the gates to them, they’ll kill us all. The lesser evil is for just some people to die.” That is the level of morality that you’re operating on. Go ahead and lecture me on what kind of day I “deserve,” as if willingness to sacrifice the lives of innocents is somehow a moral virtue and not a sign of your spinelessness and depravity.
Sorry, but you helped. You decided that your morality was more important than your efficacy. One day you will grow up and regret your decisions like I did. Sorry.
Harris decided that supporting genocide was more important than keeping Trump out of office, but for some weird reason, I’m guessing we won’t hear you blame her.
Well then, you’re welcome. Because if I “helped” Trump get elected, then by the exact same logic I “helped” Biden get elected, and you can rest assured that I will be “helping” your favorite genocidal warmonger next time.
You decided that your morality was more important than your efficacy.
Yes, obviously. That’s what having morals means. Do you believe it is morally wrong to have morals? Because you might want to examine the very obvious logical contradiction there.
One day you will grow up and regret your decisions like I did.
If I knew that I would wake up tomorrow thinking that, I would kill myself tonight, without hesitation.
One day, perhaps, you will grow up and realize the true extent of what you’re supporting. It’s only possible for you to think the way you do because of your blissful ignorance of what your people are doing on the other side of the wall.
Gasp! Oh no! He couldn’t leave or the Taliban would be left in charge!
Hey, remind me again who exactly is in charge of Afghanistan right now?
The Taliban were always going to win because the war was unwinnable from the first day, and it was even more unwinnable by the time Obama took office. He just had to pour countless lives into it first to accomplish nothing whatsoever. What, just so we could say we gave it the “ol’ college try?”
Let me be absolutely clear: I would sooner die than even consider supporting anyone responsible for the war. There is no choice to be made. You could drag me into a voting booth at gunpoint, and I’d tell you to pull the trigger. This is the thing that you fuckers need to get through your thick fucking skulls. What they did is fundamentally unforgivable, and they should be behind bars.
Removed by mod
Ad hominem
Yes, that’s correct. And I haven’t learned my lesson and I’m not going to.
Guess you’d better do everything you can to ensure your next candidate doesn’t have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent people on their hands. Because I’m just too stupid to understand why it’s acceptable to vote for a mass murderer, and no matter how you explain it, I’m simply not smart enough to ever understand.
Have another drink.
You wanting an ideal world isn’t just going to magically make it happen. Unfortunately we have to live in reality where nuance is real.
No we get it. You’re an extremist and live in a fantasy world where nuance doesn’t exist and your extreme idea of morality is the only option.
Unfortunately we have to live with you (who you honestly seem like a moral person but unfortunately don’t understand that politics and most of life is about compromise) and the sociopaths on the other side who will exploit your morality to get everything they want. Your inability to understand the nuance is only good for the sociopaths.
Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.
Yes the realist position is that that a better world is not possible, so you’d better run an incredibly unpopular candidate who loses so you get nothing at all.
I vote in the primary for the better candidate. But if there is no alternative in the general, what would like me to do?
The bare minimum would be not voting for a fascist genocider - This includes the dems.
Here we go.
“wahhhh I want to vote for genocide!!!” <- You, apparently
Yep, great discussion.
You might want to try to write something of substance if you want a good discussion.
I really don’t get how Libs think that Democrats just can’t stop war and murder. It’s actually not that hard, in fact, most people go their whole lives without invading another country, and murdering a bunch of innocent people. But when it comes to Democrats, that’s just “what they have to do”, for some reason.
Actually most Americans do since its your government and it represents the people.
The US government objectively does not represent the people, and never has. It has always represented the oligarchy. Previously:
Actually, our government famously does not represent our people. That’s like, one of the fundamental problems that we have here.
Bush ran on avoiding foreign interventionism, and invaded. Obama ran on reducing involvement in the Middle East, then increased involvement. Trump ran on being an “outsider,” distancing himself from the establishment in both parties who had conducted the war, then he continued the war.
When did Americans ever have the opportunity to choose anyone different? For 20 years, we were never given a choice. Because when the ruling class really wants something, it gets it. Because the US is not a democracy.
Not to mention Obamas involvement in Libya, Kony 2012 or the “Arab Spring” and all the lovely interventions that brought us. Or “combat ready males” instead of “14-year old boy”. Or the continuance of Bushs surge and then later on the excuse of ISIS.
WHY THE FUCK NOT? That’s literally exactly what Biden did, the only difference is that we spend an extra decade pouring endless amounts of blood and treasure, to accomplish NOTHING. “Realist,” my ass.
Realism was recognizing that the war was lost from the minute it started, because the occupation could not last forever and the moment it ended the puppet government would collapse. Calling yourself a “realist,” while pretending that a decades long occupation was a “mistake” is completely absurd.
There’s plenty of room for nuance, on certain topics. Not on this. Not the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians. If Trump killed a hundred thousand people in New York City, would you be talking about “nuance?” Was the Holocaust “nuanced?” There’s a fucking line to be drawn, and there’s exactly one reason why Afghans are on one side of the line to me and the other to you, and it’s that you don’t see them as actual human beings.
K well as long as you’re unwilling to vote strategically, you’ll continue to allow evil fascists to take over the US. The rest of us will try to elect progressives in primaries and support the most left-leaning viable candidate in the general election because that’s how you defeat fascists if your society isn’t ready for a revolution yet, and ours isn’t. Too many full bellies and entertained morons.
Oh no! If the evil fascists take over, they might start a war of aggression that kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people or something! Just imagine!
There’s a discussion to be had about potentially supporting imperfect candidates, but every single one of you takes it to a ridiculous extreme, such that even outright genocide is no biggie. It’s completely ridiculous, utterly absurd. Frankly, yours is not a view that should even be tolerated in society.
A complete and total refusal to hold politicians to any degree of accountability for literally anything, treating them as completely above the law. This is exactly why the term Blue MAGA is completely appropriate. You are the moderate wing of fascism.
Ah yes Harris would be exactly like trump. Well hope youbenjoy your country burning to the ground. Have fun. And stio complaining your complicit in the whole thing.
she would
I love how libs can’t address the points that other people make, and have to keep making up arguments that nobody is saying, to yell at.
Also, the “person who supports genocidists is mad that their genocidist didn’t get elected” is such a silly concept to me. Then they turn around and yell at the anti-genocidists for “being complicit”.
I’m definitely enjoying it. Death to America!
This is one of those phrases that tells everyone exactly what they need to know about you. Have a great day!
this comment is very telling
Indeed. It says, “I can see you’ve accomplished a level of self delusion I won’t be able to penetrate, so I’m not going to waste my time.”
it tells me that you don’t know how liberal democracies lay the groundwork for fascism
Yeah helping elect MAGA Republicans is totally saving the USA from fascism ROFLMFAO…
no one is suggesting that, either. there is a cure for political illiteracy.
Worse from talking to you.
Well if you live in a swing state, you deserve it for plunging my homeland into fascism. Have a mediocre day!
I love how Libs always try to blame others for their mistakes.
“If you didn’t vote for the party that bombs kids, supports rapists, and backed a genocide, it’s because you actually like fascism!”
This is why the term BlueMAGA works so well: Because Libs can’t see their own cultish hypocrisy, even when it’s staring at them in the mirror.
I didn’t plunge anybody’s homeland into fascism. It’s just that you’d just rather punch left than blame the people actually responsible.
There have been many times throughout history where people have considered genocide as acceptable to prevent a greater evil. Every single one of them was wrong.
“If the enemy is at the gates, we need to round up and exterminate anyone of their race, because if they open the gates to them, they’ll kill us all. The lesser evil is for just some people to die.” That is the level of morality that you’re operating on. Go ahead and lecture me on what kind of day I “deserve,” as if willingness to sacrifice the lives of innocents is somehow a moral virtue and not a sign of your spinelessness and depravity.
Sorry, but you helped. You decided that your morality was more important than your efficacy. One day you will grow up and regret your decisions like I did. Sorry.
Harris decided that supporting genocide was more important than keeping Trump out of office, but for some weird reason, I’m guessing we won’t hear you blame her.
Well then, you’re welcome. Because if I “helped” Trump get elected, then by the exact same logic I “helped” Biden get elected, and you can rest assured that I will be “helping” your favorite genocidal warmonger next time.
Yes, obviously. That’s what having morals means. Do you believe it is morally wrong to have morals? Because you might want to examine the very obvious logical contradiction there.
If I knew that I would wake up tomorrow thinking that, I would kill myself tonight, without hesitation.
One day, perhaps, you will grow up and realize the true extent of what you’re supporting. It’s only possible for you to think the way you do because of your blissful ignorance of what your people are doing on the other side of the wall.