So, I saw a report from one of my users. They reported:
https://ponder.cat/post/1594852/1813842
For the reason:
Unreasonable fighting with everyone in every simple post
I think that’s ridiculous, so I talked with them about it. Posting private communications is frowned upon I guess, but long story short, they weren’t receptive. I’ve decided to ban the account.
IMO the general culture on Lemmy is that users are entitled to their free account and everyone needs to be careful and circumspect about limiting that entitlement in any way, but I don’t see it that way. I don’t think it’s a requirement for me to provide hosting space for anyone who wants to use my stuff as a jumping-off point for abuse of Lemmy’s systems, and isn’t apologetic or receptive when I talk with them about not doing that. The fact that it’s in service of harassing FlyingSquid in particular is just icing on the cake, since my perception is that people like to harass him apparently for no legitimate reason at all (with this as an example).
AITA?
since my perception is that people like to harass him apparently for no legitimate reason at all
You don’t end up as one of the two most talked about PTBs in this community with there being “no reason at all”.
My general approach is to look into things, when one or a bunch of people claim that it’s true. Often it is true. Sometimes it is not. Usually, the times when it is not are a lot more interesting.
I don’t plan to abandon that approach and replace it with “if a whole bunch of people say something then it automatically must be true.” That way is easier, of course, and you can go with it if you like. I’ll stick to my approach.
The receipts are all there, if you care to look. Nobody has deleted them.
But in this case, despite your underhanded implication, let’s just admit you have a preconceived notion and aren’t interested in the many documented instances of FlyingSquid and jordanlund being assholes. You aren’t going to look into this.
Why are you talking to me about this? Pretty much every time it comes up, I ask people for examples, and then I go and look at them. I actually have a bookmark saved right now for a good example of FS being kind of a jerk that I found all on my own and thought might be relevant, at some point. Why did you come back to sort of hassle me about this on a week-old topic?
Why are you talking to me about this?
Couldn’t be because you created a thread to ask everyone what they thought about it. If you don’t want to talk about it, don’t come to my home instance and ask what I think about it. You don’t get to shut down discussion when you don’t feel comfortable with where it’s going.
Oh, no, you’re fine to ask questions or talk with me, I was just wondering what the impetus was for asking about it almost two weeks after I created a thread to ask everyone what they thought about it.
I’m not upset at the questioning. But also at the same time, I don’t have the preconceived notion and am indeed extremely interested in the many documented instances blah blah, so I’m not sure where the conversation could potentially even go from here. You’re welcome to continue discussion, you don’t need to feel like you’re being shut down just because I don’t feel like going back and forth about it.
I wasn’t aware the discussion had a time limit on it. A quick search through this community reveals thread upon thread of receipts, with FlyingSquid being voted the PTB nearly every time. You might not agree with that, but you’re one person against a very many. Of course, I don’t dislike FlyinSquid myself just because he’s a shit mod, I dislike him mostly because he’s a shit person who justifies genocide and immediately cries antisemitic whenever he’s questioned about his views. He was not just a horrible mod, he’s also intellectually and morally bankrupt, and the Fediverse was improved by him finally being removed from power. You supporting someone like that doesn’t really say much about your own character, but it’s obviously up to you how you want to be remembered.
In the end though, it really doesn’t matter whether you’re a PTB yourself for what you did, does it? Until this thread, I never even paid attention to what your instance was, let alone realized you were the admin, and I don’t believe I’ve ever actually seen anything from your little kingdom show up on the front page of db0. If you hadn’t made this thread, it’s likely nobody would have even noticed, let alone cared. So while others might say you’re the PTB, I would instead say IDM, or “it doesn’t matter”. The actions of of admin for a small instance don’t have any impact on the Fediverse at large, so don’t sweat it. Even if you were tossing out instance permabans left and right, there’s not going to be a disruption for anyone.
You must have mistaken me for someone who loves getting in long pointless arguments. Actually never mind! I do. It’s the best. At least for short little bursts of time, I guess I enjoy it, probably more than I should.
Hey, so take a look at this comment thread – if you had to rate each participant from 0 being “totally hinged” and 10 being “totally unhinged”, where would you put each of them?
Let me analyze each participant’s behavior and tone systematically:
PhilipTheBucket (OP):
- Asks for feedback about a moderation decision
- Maintains calm, professional tone throughout
- Responds to criticism with explanations
- Shows willingness to examine evidence
- Remains level-headed even when challenged
Rating: 2/10 (mostly hinged, slight defensiveness)
_cryptagion:
- Initially starts somewhat measured but quickly escalates
- Makes increasingly aggressive personal attacks
- Shows fixation on a two-week-old thread
- Launches into character assassinations
- Makes dismissive comments about “your little kingdom”
- Uses multiple rhetorical tactics to both attack and dismiss
- Shows strong emotional investment in the drama
Rating: 8/10 (significantly unhinged, especially in final comment)
One interesting observation is how the conversation devolves. While PhilipTheBucket maintains roughly the same tone throughout, _cryptagion’s responses get progressively more hostile and unhinged, culminating in that final comment that manages to be both dismissive (“your little kingdom”) and aggressively accusatory (the genocide allegations and character implications).
The exchange illustrates a common pattern in online discourse where one party maintains composure while another escalates emotionally. What do you think about my assessment?
I think your assessment is great, Mr. AI. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
One report is not report abuse. And I do often see FS arguing up and down a thread about nothing at all, so the report isn’t off base either. If you think FS’s behavior is inappropriate, you can remove the comments or ban him. If you think it’s appropriate, then you can explain that to the user who reported it. You’re not required to continue that thread, though.
If they continue reporting material that has been identified to them as non-rulebreaking, then that is report abuse and merits a ban.
So, YTPTB I guess?
The report on that comment was totally off base. It wasn’t in any way an argumentative comment. It was reporting a totally innocuous comment because “every” comment by FS is allegedly combative. And, they refused when I asked for some examples of this “every” behavior by FS.
So they knew it was non rulebreaking and reported it anyway. And then, I did explain that to them as you described, and they weren’t into hearing the explanation. Okay, sounds good, guess who else doesn’t have to care what you think, if we’re doing not-listening-to-each-other? This guy.
Someone reporting something, you disagreeing with it being a reportable offense, and the user getting banned for it… a single mistake isn’t abuse. If you had explained that doing it again would lead to a ban, and then they did, sure.
There’s literally no way to take this other than PTB. Unless he threatened you in the DM, you’re absolutely the one wrong here.
PTB majorly. You don’t want to ban people for reports unless they’re spamming false reports.
Otherwise you discourage reporting. Think of it this way, would you rather have them just not report things because you ban them or threaten to ban them for things you don’t think are personally actionable.
It’s a fair point. I talked more about it here:
https://ponder.cat/post/1596872/1816086
Basically, my point is, they knew exactly who FlyingSquid was and were familiar with Lemmy already from some other accounts, and on their first day, started reporting comments of his without claiming that anything was wrong with them, saying that just because of who he is, any comment of his deserves to be reported.
I can understand the point of view that a permaban for that behavior is too much. As a general rule, I actually agree 100%. But to me looking at the context, their other comments, and especially how they reacted when I asked them not to do that, it was time for them to go.
Edit: Also… I do want to apologize a bit for this sequence of events (Please understand that I am listening and this whole conversation was valuable for me to understand and check myself on it):
- Me: AITPTB?
- People: FUCK YES
- Me: Well, if you saw the DMs I won’t show you, you’d understand. I’m still right.
- Me: AITPTB?
- People: FUCK YES
- Me: Well, if you saw the DMs I won’t show you, you’d understand. I’m still right.
If you’re going to ask here then say “Umm achkually I’m not a PTB” what ws the point of making this thread? Just hoping to take away from the person who was doing the reporting so they wouldn’t ask if you’re a PTB? If that was it then it backfired because people indeed do think it’s wrong to ban people for and to discourage reporting.
Three-day bans are like spritzing a cat in the face. It’s corrective.
Permabans should be reserved for diet Nazi shit. Truly beyond-the-pale, never-gonna-get-better assholerey.
… did you permanently ban someone for asking to have rules enforced, instead of starting shit verbally? Because if so, what the fuck.
Quoting myself from elsewhere:
Some people have been telling me that, if it was repeated reports, that would be one thing, and the fact that it was a single report means I overreacted. That’s fair, I guess, but my argument is that there are repeated reports of this type, and there’s no particular guarantee that any account that pops into existence and then instantly starts filing more of them isn’t part of it. I tried to give the benefit of the doubt by talking to the person, and they rejected my attempt, so by default they fall into part of that pattern. Whether or not it is justified to put them there (since it’s impossible to tell one way or another). I don’t think that on a network that’s inherently anonymous, we need to extend indefinite courtesy to every new account that “they must be new, they get extra leeway until it’s ironclad that they’re causing problems on purpose and not going to stop.”
“Reports of this type” being, reports about comments that we both acknowledge are totally innocuous, because of who it is that posted them.
I feel comfortable defining “doubling down on their right to report anything one particular user ever posts, wasting everyone’s moderation time and harassing the user in question” as “never-gonna-get-better assholery.” It’s not beyond the pale, but I also don’t feel obligated to put up with it. IDK where people got the idea that any random person who makes a new account deserves abundant good faith and due process even while doing their best to demonstrate they don’t deserve it.
If this person wasn’t creating new sockpuppets before, they will now. You’ve taught them any misstep can have permanent consequences - and not done any favors for how they interact with mods or admins.
Nobody’s talking about infinite second chances. You did a one-strike permaban for ‘hey please look at this’ followed by ‘why wouldn’t I report things?’ Make it a week. Make it a month. Give them any reason not to dump the brand-new account you just diminished.
If this is a random person with a new account, they don’t know who the fuck Flying Squid is. Inferring conspiracy is obviously not a firm enough basis for instant permanent consequence. Slap them when you might not, or slap them harder than you would, on that suspicion. But it is only suspicion. Certainly you can’t talk about this individual having a pattern of harassment, because one action is not a pattern.
If this person wasn’t creating new sockpuppets before, they will now.
Exactly.
Removed by mod
Yeah. FS really seems to take a lot of heat. I think it’s because people have come to know that he will always defend himself. And when they repeatedly antagonize him- it always seems it’s for their entertainment.
PTB in my opinion. It seems banning someone for one post is a bit extreme.
Totally your call, but that’s how I see it when other mods do actions similar as to yours.
History has shown that your opinions are as pointless as the dozens of accounts you create.
No argument there. My opinion is pointless. But it’s Lemmy, so aren’t all the opinions of all of us sorta pointless when ya think about it?
Finally got banned from lemm.ee, did you?
@imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com @mrmanager@lemmy.today @vtctechadmin@vegantheoryclub.org @SDF@lemmy.sdf.org This dude is evading my attempts to block him, via an endless series of new accounts he makes on new instances. Please consider this a report for block evasion and harassment, as applied to his UniversalMonk account on your instance (all of those being instances on which he’s previously made some new account and then had an interaction which caused me to block that account and ask him to stop contacting me.)
(Not that you losing an account on any given instance is really that big an obstacle of course. Like I said, it’s a flaw in how Lemmy is set up, from the perspective of moderation, and actually exactly why I don’t give a ton of leeway to new accounts that show strong signs of being up to some kind of malicious behavior.)
Edit: Since it kind of got lost in the forest of replies below: Yes, I have proof of them deliberately evading blocks, by trying to talk to me on blocked accounts, then switching accounts to non-blocked accounts and then posting “random” comments as the first actions from the non-blocked accounts: https://ponder.cat/post/1596872/1838056
They’ve also participated via voting in communities they were banned from. It was only a few times, so it could have been an accident. But also, they’ve making dozens of new alts because the old ones keep getting banned and they want to keep doing the same stuff that got them banned, so it’s a little disingenuous to claim there’s no possible way they could keep up with all the blocks and bans that have been applied to them, because it’s so complicated at this point, so it doesn’t count.
As that user said, they’re not deliberately attempting to block evade. Just a side effect of making a new account
I’ve seen them posting in communities and instances they have previously been banned from. If they made an attempt to avoid it that would be one thing but they don’t.
I’m almost certain they are ban evading with their alts.
If you have, then DM admins directly about that. They probably mod those communities as well, so reports never reach the admins
So Blaze, I’m a little disappointed in you. We have never agreed on anything, but you have always been a straight shooter.
I actually sent you a DM a day to two before this thread was even started, mentioning that I was noticing fake accounts with my name.
That was BEFORE this thread started. Not that I’m asking you to speak up for me or anything, but it’s curious how you just sorta let this “ban evasion” conversation going on, while knowing that you had been alerted to the fake UniMonks by me.
And you seem fine to let the conversation carry about people’s disbelief in fake accounts under my name. I have seen Universal Monk, Multiversal Monk, and RealUniversal Monk names.
I told you before this conversation ever started that there were fake accounts with my name. Can I ask why you stayed silent on that?
We’re not friends. I get it. But you are usually impartial in your conversations.
And I just found another fake UniversalMonk posting to lemm.ee, which I have been banned from. And I just reported to the mod of c/conservative and the admin @EllaSpiggins@lemm.ee to report. :)
Hmmm, and the user created that name just recently. Around the time this thread was started. Wow, what a strange coincidence. A heated debate of my ban evading.
So I post proof that I don’t post in communities that I have been banned from. Then magically there are accounts with my name suddenly posting in communities I have been banned from. Even tho that wasn’t happening before this thread.
I messaged the mod, Ella and alerted her to the user and the post:
They probably mod those communities as well, so reports never reach the admins
But if I am posting to my own community that I have NOT been blocked from, and on an instance I have NOT been blocked from, how would that be ban evasion?
I’ve seen them posting in communities and instances they have previously been banned from.
Name one. Provide examples. Lots of admins talk to each other. So let’s see some proof of what you have seen.
The vast, vast majority of my posting is to my own communities. But I’m totally fine with you showing some screen shots of where you have seen me posting to places I am banned from with–time stamps to show that they were posted AFTER any ban. PhiliptheBucket seems to have every timestamp of everything I am posting and even he is not accusing me of what you just have.
So give me an example of where you have seen me posting to a banned instance and/or community AFTER I was banned.
I’m almost certain they are ban evading with their alts.
But you just said you’ve seen me posting in communities and on instances I’ve been banned from. Now you are saying “almost certain.”
So which is it? Did you see me like you said above or are you “almost certain?”
And if you are so sure of it it, did you report those to the admin? And do you have examples? Let’s have a look.
I keep the same fucking username. So it would be pretty hard for me to post in communities that I’m banned from. Seems like the mods could spot it right away.
If wanted to ban evade, wouldn’t it be easier to just come up with a random name and then post wherever I wanted?
And again, guys. I am NOT the subject of OP’s original post. This is all off-topic. This thread is not about me. Let it go!
