cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/33059913

From the linked PDF:

Give the officers my ID?
If the ICE officer demands your ID, only show a driver’s license or another ID issued from the U.S. government. DON’T give the officer any false or foreign documents such as a passport, consular ID, or an expired visa.

In NY, the DRIVER must show any officer a driver’s license. If you are the PASSENGER, you do NOT have to show the officer an ID or give any personal information, including your name, address, or place of birth.

This seems off.

My understanding: in the US, nationals need not carry ID (while immigrants must carry their docs). Exceptionally, if you are driving a car, then the state requires you to carry your driver’s license. The DL is the property of the state. The fed does not issue driver’s licenses.

There is no such thing as a US federal driver’s license. The quote above refers to “ID issued from the U.S. government,” that would be a passport. A passport is not going to be carried daily inside the issuing country.

Traffic enforcement is not in the jurisdiction of federal ICE agents, is it? Can they really demand your driver’s license under this kind of false pretense of ensuring that drivers are permitted to drive when in fact the real reason they want to see the DL is to snoop on citizenship?

There are some interstate highways that traverse state borders. Does it make a difference whether or not someone is driving on one?

And what about cyclists? If you are cycling and happen incidentally to be carrying a driver’s license (which is not needed to cycle), must you produce it on demand?

It’s bizarre how that doc singles out New York. How does it differ from other states?

what the ACLU says

The ACLU has some advice:

https://www.acluva.org/know-your-rights/stopped-by-police-or-ice/

This is also a bit imprecise. Of course drivers must show their DL to “police”, but what about ICE? They just leave that up in the air.

  • crimes_of_ICEMEnglish
    2·
    13 hours ago

    Interestingly enough, ACLU states that if you are stopped by an ICE agent while in your car,

    “Upon request, give the police (1) your driver’s license, (2) registration, (3) proof of insurance. If you do not have one of these, do not give false documents.”

    But the issue is that ICE agents differ in authority from the local police force. So the answer is still unclear

    • activistPnk@slrpnk.netOPEnglish
      2·
      11 hours ago

      Considering there is state and local opposition to ICE invading their cities, I would hope an ICE encounter would go like this: ice: “show me your driver’s license”
      me: “can I see yours first? Are you a fed?”
      ice: “yes, I am a fed. Now how bout that ID?”
      me: “Traffic law is outside of your jurisdiction. If you think I am driving unlawfully, you should call the state or local police. Are you detaining me?”

      In principle, it seems like ICE’s only legal move to /force/ DL disclosure would be to ask a non-federal cop to demand my state DL. Cops would not like their resources being wasted on that, so they would eventally stop responding to ICE. If my understanding is correct, then I don’t understand why mayors and governors who are outspokenly opposed to ICE don’t inform people that only local/state cops can force you to show a DL. Sure they don’t want their cops being dragged into it, but it would get old quick and the pushback would make ICE’s effort less fruitful.

      OTOH, politicians are just posturing. It’s good for optics to condemn ICE; and optics is all we can expect. But certainly activists should be pushing this move.

      Anyway, you’re the first person to even understand my post… to realize that jursidiction matters. Ironically, folks in the US law forum don’t have a clue.